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+--- Thread: Baseball's MVP is... (/showthread.php?tid=11995)
- diceisgod - 09-03-2006
never a doubt
- Keyser Soze - 09-03-2006
nice win
- diceisgod - 09-09-2006
55, 56
No way he doesn't win it
- GonzoStyle - 09-09-2006
so it begs the debate, if he passes 61 will he be considered by most as the "real" record breaker, since he's the 1st to do it without the cloud of steroids over him?
Cause the thing that disgusted me most, was the fact that ruth hit 60 in 1927, maris hits 61 in 1961. So for over 70 years only 2 guys hit 60 and 61. So you figure the guy who breaks it will hit 62, maybe 63.
Then Mcgwire just annihilates it with 70, and bonds 73 just screams roids.
- diceisgod - 09-09-2006
I think it's real obvious by just looking at him that he's not a roid head. Granted he probably uses a lot of the advanced muscle growth concoctions that all modern atheletes use today but not the hardcore stuff. Just imagine if he started though? He'd be a complete animal and probably hit 80 or 90 and maybe even steal a base or two. Plus the Maris clan said they would endorse him so that has to help his case: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-maris090606&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
- GonzoStyle - 09-09-2006
thats just amazing though, in his first full season, thats beyond sick.
- HedCold - 09-19-2006
jose valentin mvp
- Keyser Soze - 09-19-2006
agreed
- GonzoStyle - 09-19-2006
with the mets its more difficult cause its hard to say who is more valuable on that team, theres been so many guys who have carried the team at some point. Wether it was beltran, reyes, or delgado this last month though its pointless now cause they have it sewn up.
but I wouldn't be against reyes or beltran getting it but at the same time, its a combined team effort for the mets.
yet even though the phillies probably wont get there, they are a last place team without howard. But that is a debate all on its own.
- Keyser Soze - 09-21-2006
Like it or not Howard supporters, you could come closer to replacing Howard’s contributions far quicker than you could Beltran’s. And just to pound that point home, we can look at Win Share ratings.
Beltran: Batting- 29.2 (3rd), Fielding- 7.6 (1st), Total-37 (1st)
Howard: Batting-27.2(6th), Fielding-0.9, Total-28 (6th)
I didn’t list Howard’s ranking fielding wise, because it didn’t come anywhere near the top fifty in the NL. Not everyone will buy Win Share ratings, and there still is some skepticism about defense, but there is no question that when you’re talking about a difference of this much, Beltran is far more difficult to replace than Howard. For the record the difference between Beltran and Howard Win Share wise, is the difference between Howard and Orlando Hudson, Chris Carpenter, Brian McCann and Dave Roberts. Again, difference between Beltran and Howard equals the difference between Howard and Dave Roberts. That’s how valuable a great offensive and defensive centerfielder is.
And then finally the argument exists that Howard is instrumental in his team’s drive to the playoffs. That’s true, but since most people discriminate based off a team’s record, isn’t that case with most MVP candidates?
- GonzoStyle - 09-21-2006
please, beltran has delgado, reyes, and wright on his team, they have all been as intregal to the team as beltran.
Without Howard, Philadelphia isnt close to sniffing the wildcard, and probably in last place.
Who and how are you going to replace Howard, explain it... please...
Sure beltran carried the team for a month when delgado wasnt hitting, nor was wright. But Delgado has been a beast the last month while Beltran has been hitting in the 220's. While Wright carried the team in the early part of the season and Reyes has been a little beast all season.
- Keyser Soze - 09-21-2006
My point was not that he was irreplacable in that lineup, but his skill sets are rare. There are few players in baseball that are as well rounded, especially at his position, as Beltran is. In essence he is a special player.
You could make the same arguement for Reyes, who is a few homers away from joining Willie Mays as the only player to hit .300, and knock in 20 or more doubles, triples and homers, while stealing over 40 bases. Thats pretty special as well.
- GonzoStyle - 09-21-2006
thats my point, you can't say that beltran is the most valuable player on the team because he has the talent around him that could be argued is just as valuable.
Beltran is an exceptional player and always has been, last year, call it jitters or whatever, it was an off year. This year he was in true form and has had one of his best years to date and is a very exceptional player, no doubt.
Is he in contention more so than reyes? Yes. Does he have a chance to win? Of course, is he more valuable to his team than howard is to the phils? No way.
- Keyser Soze - 09-21-2006
this is purely hypothetical, but who would be more valuable on the phillies? beltran or howard? i'd have to say beltran because he is a more multidimensional player.
you never know with these things, they picked arod one year on a last place team because he was such a statistical monster.
but it seems like there a howard lovefest in the media and they want to promote a home run slugger who appears to be 'clean' to improve baseball's image so i believe he will win it.
- diceisgod - 09-22-2006
without a doubt, the guy is a machine
- diceisgod - 09-23-2006
58 baby!
- The Jays - 09-23-2006
Keyser Soze Wrote:this is purely hypothetical, but who would be more valuable on the phillies? beltran or howard? i'd have to say beltran because he is a more multidimensional player.
you never know with these things, they picked arod one year on a last place team because he was such a statistical monster.
but it seems like there a howard lovefest in the media and they want to promote a home run slugger who appears to be 'clean' to improve baseball's image so i believe he will win it.
Howard is on a team that traded away Bobby Abreu, and his team got better. The Mets have so many players that are great and integral to the team; you can't point to just one guy and say he's the one who carried that team on his back. If Beltran went down, they have players who could shoulder the load. If Howard went down, no way would the Phillies be as close to the playoffs as they are right now. The Mets have coasted to the playoffs through the entire season, the Phillies haven't.
- GonzoStyle - 09-23-2006
it's like he's a mini version of me.
- The Jays - 09-23-2006
Keyser Soze Wrote:My point was not that he was irreplacable in that lineup, but his skill sets are rare. There are few players in baseball that are as well rounded, especially at his position, as Beltran is. In essence he is a special player.
Yes, he's special. He's just not the most valueable. Would he get so many rbis if Reyes wasn't instilling baserunning fears into the pitchers, and wasn't in scoring position as much as he is?
- GonzoStyle - 09-23-2006
lets not also forget that besides losing abreu, this guy is a rookie who was replacing Him Thome, in probably one of the worst sports cities around. So the pressure was enough to crack the most seasoned veteran.
No one was expecting to smell a playoff spot, with losing thome and their closer to boot. Hopefully the kid would be half as good as thome, hit 25 maybe 30 home runs, drive in hopefully a 100 and he pulls of probably the best full season debut in history and has the phillies in the race for the playoffs.
While Beltran in his debut, folded to the immense pressure in his first full season. So it was easier this year for him because he had more talentt around him and a healthy reyes, a lights out closer and decent picthing. Plus no one was expecting a lot from him, as long as he hit 20-25 homers, people would be happy, as long as he provided them a glove. So without the intense pressure, he was able to finally put together a Beltran like season and people who had lowered expectations are wetting their pants.