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+--- Thread: 2005 AL MVP - Who should it be and why? (/showthread.php?tid=10592)
- The Jays - 09-29-2005
Who, in your opinion, deserves to be the American League MVP, and why?
- GonzoStyle - 09-29-2005
A rod over ortiz, while both are almost equals on offense, ortiz is still a DH. Plus A Rod has become more clutch than he was last season and is tops in almost all offensive categories, if Ortiz played defense though i'd have to give it to him. The award may probably be decided between the 2 on how they perform in the final series this weekend is some eyes but A Rod has the edge.
- Galt - 09-29-2005
Arod is clearly the better hitter and better athlete. If that's MVP then him and Pujols should win every single year.
Without Ortiz, the Sox would be a .500 team, or at a minimum have lost the 10 games he won in his last at bat. He's also loved by the team, and makes the whole team go.
Arod isn't the leader of the team, everyone hates him, he isn't clutch, and to honest, he isn't even the most valuable player on his own team. The real MVP of the Yankees is Giambi. If Giambi didn't go on his tear in the second half the Yankees wouldn't be in the place they are right now.
- GonzoStyle - 09-29-2005
The sox still have manny and they have made the playoffs without Ortiz, though he naturally put them over the top. Naturally throughout the year you will have supporting players who carry the team and Giambi did his share, Tino also had that Run of 10 homers in a few games. Chacon and Small also without a doubt carried the yanks down the stretch but the same can be said about a bunch of teams with MVP candidates. Without Ortiz I dont think they are a .500 team but they'd be about 6-8 games back right now. The one person who trully proved his team is nothing without him is Bonds, they collapsed without him in a division where you play .500 ball and make the playoffs. As far as NL I gotta go with Andruw because he carried that team for a good 2 months all alone, while everyone was writing them off. St. Louis has too much talent all around but I wouldnt be surprised is Pujols won of course, he's a phenom and potentially we may be watching the greatest player of all time.
- Arpikarhu - 09-29-2005
Quote:he isn't clutch
this is a misconception. look at his RISP, batting average with RISP in late innings with the yanks down by a run. it is quite high.
- Galt - 09-29-2005
Arod is clearly better when there is nobody on base and in non-clutch situations. Ortiz is the opposite.
Manny hasn't been that good this year, at least compared to his history.
There can be no debate that Giambi is the reason that the Yankees are still in the race.
- GonzoStyle - 09-29-2005
seventh inning or later in a tie or one-run game, or with the potential tying run at least on deck
Rodriguez
67 at bats
21 hits
4 home runs
.313 avg
.439 obp
Ortiz has the edge on home runs and rbis and no one denies he's the best this season in the clutch but A Rod has delivered this year.
Ortiz
68 At Bats
21 Hits
7 Home runs
.309 avg
.407 obp
- The Jays - 09-29-2005
And if clutch is gonna be the way you define an MVP, then Sheffield should be the MVP, since he has the highest average of all AL players with runners in scoring postion.
- GonzoStyle - 09-29-2005
Clutch is one of the factors lets not simplify it mr. 3000 hits is easy all you have to do is get 150 hits a year for 20 years.
- The Jays - 09-29-2005
Galt Wrote:Arod is clearly the better hitter and better athlete. If that's MVP then him and Pujols should win every single year.Your post reminds me of something I read earlier today.
Without Ortiz, the Sox would be a .500 team, or at a minimum have lost the 10 games he won in his last at bat. He's also loved by the team, and makes the whole team go.
Arod isn't the leader of the team, everyone hates him, he isn't clutch, and to honest, he isn't even the most valuable player on his own team. The real MVP of the Yankees is Giambi. If Giambi didn't go on his tear in the second half the Yankees wouldn't be in the place they are right now.
Quote:As for this year's AL MVP race, A-Rod backers point to impressive stats and excellent play at third, conveniently ignoring a lack of leadership and a comical tendency to turn into Roy Hobbs only during blowouts. When the Yankees are leading by 30 or more runs, A-Rod is hitting .950 with 19 HRs and 45 RBIs. All right, I made that up. But he's certainly no David Ortiz, the most dangerous clutch hitter in baseball, in addition to being the soul of Boston's clubhouse and the emotional center of the team. Without him, this year's Sox would be a .500 team, or worse. That makes him the MVP.
It's easy to be the soul of the Boston clubhouse when you spend the majority of your time inside the dugout.
- Galt - 09-29-2005
* Less meaningful
Arod: Bases empty: .338 BA; 1.108 OPS
Arod: no RISP: 1.102 OPS
Arod: non - "close and late": 1.024 OPS
* More meaningful
Arod: RISP .292 BA; .900 OPS
Arod: RISP w/2 outs .302 BA; .940 OPS
Arod: "close and late": 1.006 OPS
* Less meaningful
Ortiz: Bases empty: .280 BA; .980 OPS
Ortiz: no RISP: .994 OPS
Ortiz: non - "close and late": .972
* More meaningful
Ortiz: RISP .344 BA; 1.034 OPS
Ortiz: RISP w/2 outs: .357 BA; 1.214 OPS
Ortiz: "close and late" 1.161 OPS
- Galt - 09-30-2005
My post reminds you of Simmons article simply because I took the side of Ortiz. I'd vote for Giambi over both of them, and I don't think Simmons even mentioned his name.
it's common knowledge that Ortiz is the second coming of Reggie Jackson
- HollywoodJewMoses - 09-30-2005
GonzoStyle Wrote:The sox still have manny and they have made the playoffs without Ortiz, though he naturally put them over the top. Naturally throughout the year you will have supporting players who carry the team and Giambi did his share, Tino also had that Run of 10 homers in a few games. Chacon and Small also without a doubt carried the yanks down the stretch but the same can be said about a bunch of teams with MVP candidates. Without Ortiz I dont think they are a .500 team but they'd be about 6-8 games back right now. The one person who trully proved his team is nothing without him is Bonds, they collapsed without him in a division where you play .500 ball and make the playoffs. As far as NL I gotta go with Andruw because he carried that team for a good 2 months all alone, while everyone was writing them off. St. Louis has too much talent all around but I wouldnt be surprised is Pujols won of course, he's a phenom and potentially we may be watching the greatest player of all time.when did they make it without ortiz? do you mean in 1999?
- diceisgod - 09-30-2005
Chase Utley
- The Jays - 09-30-2005
Fielding
Alex Rodriguez
YEAR TEAM POS GP GS INN TC PO A E DP FPCT RF ZR
2005 NYY 3B 157 157 1354 403 113 279 11 25 .973 2.61 .735
David Ortiz
...
Quote:it's common knowledge that Ortiz is the second coming of Reggie Jackson
Reggie Jackson started more games as a fielder than he ever did as a DH.
- HollywoodJewMoses - 09-30-2005
i think he was referring more to the clutchness.
- The Jays - 09-30-2005
And, just, what exactly does this "everyone hates Arod" stuff come from? How is he not a leader on the team?
- HollywoodJewMoses - 09-30-2005
ortiz is pretty good.
- Galt - 09-30-2005
as if on cue
- Goatweed - 09-30-2005
I'd vote for sheff.