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+--- Thread: Students Editorial About Tillman (/showthread.php?tid=8945)
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- Keyser Soze - 05-07-2004
The kid makes some compelling points...
When the death of Pat Tillman occurred, I turned to my friend who was watching the news with me and said, "How much you want to bet they start talking about him as a 'hero' in about two hours?" Of course, my friend did not want to make that bet. He'd lose. In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.
I've been mystified at the absolute nonsense of being in "awe" of Tillman's "sacrifice" that has been the American response. Mystified, but not surprised. True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot. They should call Pat Tillman's army life "Rambo 4: Rambo Attempts to Strike Back at His Former Rambo 3 Taliban Friends, and
Gets Killed."
But, does that make him a hero? I guess it's a matter of perspective. For people in the United States, who seem to be unable to admit the stupidity of both the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars, such a trade-off in life standards (if not expectancy) is nothing short of heroic. Obviously, the man must be made of "stronger stuff" to have had decided to "serve" his country rather than take from it. It's the old JFK exhortation to citizen service to the nation, and it seems to strike an emotional chord. So, it's understandable why Americans automatically knee-jerk into hero worship.
However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico, Tillman would have been called a "pendejo," an idiot. Tillman, in the absurd belief that he was defending or serving his all-powerful country from a seventh-rate, Third World nation devastated by the previous conflicts it had endured, decided to give up a comfortable life to place himself in a combat situation that cost him his life. This was not "Ramon or Tyrone," who joined the military out of financial necessity, or to have a chance at education. This was a "G.I. Joe" guy who got what was coming to him. That was not heroism, it was prophetic idiocy.
Tillman, probably acting out his nationalist-patriotic fantasies forged in years of exposure to Clint Eastwood and Rambo movies, decided to insert himself into a conflict he didn't need to insert himself into. It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.
Perhaps it's the old, dreamy American thought process that forces them to put sports greats and "larger than life" sacrificial lambs on the pedestal of heroism, no matter what they've done. After all, the American nation has no other role to play but to be the cheerleaders of the home team; a sad role to have to play during conflicts that suffer from severe legitimacy and credibility problems.
Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders. Tillman got himself killed in a country other than his own without having been forced to go over to that country to kill its people. After all, whether we like them or not, the Taliban is more Afghani than we are. Their resistance is more legitimate than our invasion, regardless of the fact that our social values are probably more enlightened than theirs. For that, he shouldn't be hailed as a hero, he should be used as a poster boy for the dangerous consequences of too much "America is #1," frat boy, propaganda bull. It might just make a regular man irrationally drop $3.6 million to go fight in a conflict that was anything but "self-defense." The same could be said of the unusual belief of 50 percent of the American nation that thinks Saddam Hussein was behind Sept. 11. One must indeed stand in awe of the amazing success of the American propaganda machine. It works wonders.
Al-Qaeda won't be defeated in Afghanistan, even if we did kill all their operatives there. Only through careful and logical changing of the underlying conditions that allow for the ideology to foster will Al-Qaeda be defeated. Ask the Israelis if 50 years of blunt force have eradicated the Palestinian resistance. For that reason, Tillman's service, along with that of thousands of American soldiers, has been wrongly utilized. He did die in vain, because in the years to come, we will realize the irrationality of the War on Terror and the American reaction to Sept. 11. The sad part is that we won't realize it before we send more people like Pat Tillman over to their deaths.
- HedCold - 05-07-2004
wow, this really is like so 2 weeks ago
- Keyser Soze - 05-07-2004
nobody has commented on it yet. yes, its not new, but i wanted to see what people's thoughts were regarding this point of view.
- HedCold - 05-07-2004
the kids an idiot to be so preoccupied with everyone else's life. who gives a fuck why tillman decided to go to war. are we going to question the motive of every soldier there? they have their reasons and its theirs to live with. boo-hoo the media tried to pick up on a hero story that you don't agree with. its not the first time they've done it and it won't be the last.
also, the kid who wrote this was egyptian or middle eastern. i don't remember exactly. obviously he has his own personal views, but like every other lame college op-ed writer they expect people to care about their opinion over everyone else's "just because." and if anyone disagrees with them disagreeing they're the assholes.
and it was also stupid that any news source actually picked up on this story. stuff like this only makes college op-ed writers think their opinions mean that much more
- Keyser Soze - 05-07-2004
in a way, the student was critiquing the media making tillman a hero, which he didnt want, and how the media portrayed him. its a criticism of american jingoism. i don't necessarily agree with his viewpoint, but i think he's accurate about the kneejerk reaction.
- HedCold - 05-07-2004
so who should be made a hero? is the media supposed to do polls to find out whether or not people agree? the only thing this writer is going on is the fact that tillman had a beefy face. lets accuse this kid of being a terrorist because he has a middle eastern face, and see the shit fly there.
working on my school newspaper i would see the advice our advisor would write back to the editors to fix up the main news stories. he's a journalist who has his own syndicated column. the advice he gave to the editors was the same stuff you see in news articles and think "what the fuck?"
"where's the angle in this" ... or "where's the controversy thats going to get the readers interested"
at the end of the year he even told us that our stories were boring and we have to lighten up. we dont' have a journalism school here so none of us are going to be writers. we could care less about giving a certain angle. but this is how they are taught to think.
if this kid ever becomes a writer himself he's going to be doing the same shit. he'll write his op-eds claiming this or that, and people aren't going to always agree. he'll probably jump on some bandwagons himself because he agrees with them, only to reach the same controversy this story is getting now. it happens, boo hoo
- crx girl - 05-07-2004
HedCold Wrote:also, the kid who wrote this was egyptian or middle eastern. i don't remember exactly.
Quote:However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico
so, where was this editorial published? and hedcold, it's an editorial, why shouldn't the kid write up a piece on his views of an issue if he feels like it? why is it seeming to bother you so much?
- The Sleeper - 05-07-2004
Isn't the point of op-ed's to have an opinion?
- HedCold - 05-07-2004
the kids name was gonzalez, so maybe i got that part wrong
it more bothers me that he's complaining about the same stuff he's going to be doing.
- The Sleeper - 05-07-2004
I still don't get your point, he shouldn't have voiced his opinion?
- HedCold - 05-07-2004
i'm not saying he shouldn't have made the comments, if someone would have sent it to us we would have printed it too. i guess the way he's complaining about the media jumping on tilman being a hero, i'm complaining about the media making a bigger deal out of this story
talk about irony
- HedCold - 05-07-2004
and the kid isn't a journalism major, i searched it on the umass website. he's political science
- The Jays - 05-07-2004
Quote:In this self-critical incapable nation, nothing but a knee-jerk "He's a hero" response is to be expected.
Incapable? What is this nation incapable of ?
Quote:Matters are a little clearer for those living outside the American borders.
Quote:For people in the United States
Quote:However, in my neighborhood in Puerto Rico,
Did Puerto Rico leave the United States at some point? How exactly does living in Puerto Rico give someone a worldly, valueable opinion? I'm sure its fine for him to say "Oh, those American bastards" for one thing, and then say "My fellow American citizens" on another point. His story's hook is how his "outside looking in" perspective of the situation makes his opinion so important, and then allows him to rant on everything he hates about American people, which is a pretty good position to take, since there is a large audience, specifically in the college crowd, that hates most of everything that America does.
Quote:True, it's not everyday that you forgo a $3.6 million contract for joining the military. And, not just the regular army, but the elite Army Rangers. You know he was a real Rambo, who wanted to be in the "real" thick of things. I could tell he was that type of macho guy, from his scowling, beefy face on the CNN pictures. Well, he got his wish. Even Rambo got shot in the third movie, but in real life, you die as a result of being shot.
This part is just condescending bullshit. "Not just the regularrrrrr Army, but the eeeeeliteeee Army Rangers, OOOOOOOOOOO. You just KNOOOOW he was a reeeeal Rambo, I could tell he was a tough macho guy, AND HE DESERVED TO DIE!!!"
So, let me sum this kid up and make some assumptions like he's done in this article. This kid is some fucking un-athletic pussy, who probably got his ass kicked in high school, got his ass kicked in college, and likes to vent all his problems in his life on paper. He has no girlfriend, he's poor, his family's on welfare and is pumping out kids like water through a hose, and the government aint doing shit for their commonwealth. So, he's a pissed off, weak, college student who writes for the school paper and majors in poli sci. Gee, I expect a glowing commendation for Pat Tillman's heroics.
So, Keyser, you want my thoughts? Don't post op-eds of college newspapers, because I can open mine up any day of the week and read how much our country sucks.
- Keyser Soze - 05-07-2004
i'd say your assumptions are probrobly pretty accurate. but hey, what op-ed pieces are not judgemental? isn't that the point?
- The Jays - 05-07-2004
The point is, who the fuck cares about this kids opinion???? On top of that, his opinion is based on the fact that he looked macho, so he must have been a Rambo type, and so he deserved to die. It's fucking stupid. I bet he looks like a fucking lawn jockey. Thus, he probably smells and wears tshirts and hats that have cigarette company logos on them.
Hey, look at that. I can be absurdly judgemental, to the point that I look like an asshole and give little credibility to my racist opinions too. So the guy was a football player, had a macho face, and was tougher than this "journalist" was. Just because this kids a fucking pussy gives his shitty opinions some credability?
If I wanted to read negative comments about Pat Tillman, I'd read the SportsCenter forum.
- 2 tired 2 give N F - 05-07-2004
The kid glaringly forgot to mention that Tillman's brother also left the NFL to go join the Army. I could understand one person doing the rambo thing...but 2...I'm not so sure...
- LyricalGomez - 05-07-2004
What bothers me about the article is not the writer's views, I don't agree with them, but fine, think as you like.
What bothers me is that he complains about the media "using Tillman" to create a story about a hero to pluck at the heartstrings and garner ratings, yet he himself is using Tillman as a way to illustrate his anti-war and his anti-american views. Sometimes you should'nt bring politics into a matter and just admire wht somebody has done without twisting it for your own personal gain.
- Gooch - 05-08-2004
ultimate point is that you can use any story or action to spin it to your own view of everything. Though the writer makes interesting observations, he also pushes forward his own agenda, and uses Tilman to exemplfy it. He also makes assumptions based on his own views on America, and his distaste for the macho-frat-rambo elements. Obviously the writer wasn't on the Swim Team. Perhaps the chess club. And he does a disservice to himself to have these "alternative" views and observing how the media operates when he just uses it to support his own anger for being locked in a gym locker.
- diceisgod - 05-08-2004
Poopie!
- Keyser Soze - 05-09-2004
No, I think it goes deeper than that. Its a criticism of the arrogance of American imperialism. The crucial part of his essay is this...
Quote:It wasn't like he was defending the East coast from an invasion of a foreign power. THAT would have been heroic and laudable. What he did was make himself useful to a foreign invading army, and he paid for it. It's hard to say I have any sympathy for his death because I don't feel like his "service" was necessary. He wasn't defending me, nor was he defending the Afghani people. He was acting out his macho, patriotic crap and I guess someone with a bigger gun did him in.
The writer does not have to be objective. It is an op-ed piece. The writer's point of view is that the American invasion, yes invasion not liberation, of Iraq is not something that should be thought of as heroic or praiseworthy. Tillman inserting himself into the conflict in his eyes was merely idiotic. His motivations were those of someone who blindly followed the drums of war without regard for the reasons why we were at war in the first place. The writer is of the opinion that invading Iraq is doing our country more harm than good in the war on terror.
I'm not sure if I fully agree with his opinion, but I think its an opinion that was worthy of being examined.