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 Displaying 51-75 of 91 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: Call them cowards | ||||
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| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-13-2002 @ 10:23 AM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02  | quote: On a related topic, since people keep coming on to the Opie and Anthony board to talk about the war instead, I wonder if people go onto the CNN Message Board to talk about Opie and Anthony... "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| Hello! Hello! Diamond Dust! Hello! | posted on 03-13-2002 @ 11:26 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | I hope Monocracy is still reading at least even if he's not posting. The fact of the matter is your logic is flawed for endless reasons. The most of which is your theory that we kill people in war, and on September 11th, they felt they were doing the same thing. This is not true. A main reason for what they did was the fact that there are a certain group of people out there who misinterpreted a book (Koran) that there is a 90% chance of it being full of shit. (No offense to Muslims, just that, if you think about it logically, there is a miniscule chance that ANY religion is exactly right.) By doing this, they have inflicted harm and death on us since they have painted us as an enemy of everything that book stands for and they think that the book tells them to kill themselves in the struggle to eliminate us. The whole reason behind their thinking is purely fanaticism and belief of a most likely farcical ideology that, much like all other religions, can do as much harm as it does good in this world depending on who's reading it. (For every Bible thumper who gives his life for good because his religion says so, there's a guy out there killing abortion doctors because he thinks his religion says so and so on). Our motivation is revenge in this war, plain and simple. There have been times in other wars when that has not been the case, and we shouldn't be proud of that, such as in Vietnam or even Desert Storm. And, I think if you ask many Americans, we are not proud of those instances, especially Vietnam (started, by the way, by a precious liberal president named JFK who everyone looks upon as a God in left wing America, where I presume you reside). But that does not excuse the actions anyone does to us for something equally as idiotic as wanting oil or fearing for a communist domino effect when it turns out we didn't have to worry as much aboput communism anyway as it was doing a brilliant job of self-destructingon it's own, which the terrorists did. The theory that we should see their side is moronic when they were the antagonistic cowards this time. It is just as stupid as asking a Vietnamese girl whose entire village was killed to see our side when we really had no side. Of course, you only see the latter as being a valid point, because you are just as narrow-minded as the people who you challenge on this thread and believe the America hating liberal propaganda (yes, you have fallen for propaganda as well, oh naive one) that is spewed by all the bitter hippies who still can't come to grips with the fact that in the end radicalism failed and pass the idiotic ideologies of radicalism and anti-Americanism on to infect further generations and have them become mindless sheep as well, only sheep that are programmed to believe other things than what the other mindless sheep think. The hypocrisy just resonates from your side of thinking just as much as from the other side. How come Gore not being elected is a crime against democracy and Nixon losing to Kennedy in 1960 wasn't when there was a damn fix in for that one which there wasn't in the 2000 election? How come your side of the fence contradicts itself's history everytime your Congress leaders speak on the war and/or the economy lately? How come war isn't necessary when it is the only thing that will bring the peace you so desperately want? (What? You think if we left them alone on Sept. 11th, they wouldn't strike again? Sorry, but I live in the real world.) I would like to see you spin your way out of these questions. So, please stop giving up like the cowardly confrontation hating liberal you are and try to "convince me" past the propaganda on these issues, ok? It'll be fun. | ||||
| monocracys | posted on 03-13-2002 @ 12:52 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: I am Monocracy. I never back up my comments with actual facts. I just try to pretend I give a damn about the Afghan people because it makes me feel superior and helps me forget that I've accomplished absolutely nothing in life. I am Monocracy. I encourage debate... as long as you agree with me 100%. You have dared to argue me. Now I will spend 3 hours on the message board trying to come up with one of my witty comebacks like "You're stupid", "You're retarded", or "Go Away if you don't agree with me. quote: I am Monocracy. You have dared to agree with someone who disagreed with me, so now I must attack you too. However, I'm unsure what to say, as I have never spoken to a woman before... unless you count the times I've talked to myself. quote: I am Monocracy. I call other people immature, then I use sayings like "Kay, Bye", just like my 5-year-old niece says. I never follow the standards I hold everyone else to. When I do it, it's okay, but everyone else is stupid. | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-13-2002 @ 1:09 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: I am??? But... then how can I be logged in at the same time as Monocracys... And how can Anthony be on the phone at the same time as Ronald Reagan??? I can't be Monocracys, I'm just mild-mannered Clark Kent after all "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-13-2002 @ 1:19 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | I haven't seen this thread but from what it's seems it's the perfect example of "If it's not American, no one should care." or "Not American- they deserve to die." I'm not gung ho American, I don't think everything we do is great, but I am against terrorism but in order to stop it WE MUST UNDERSTAND IT. We can't just go around saying "oh these people are pure evil, they're evil doers, they have no soul, they ARE PURE EVIL." It's that simplistic thinking that allows a 9/11 attack to takes place. Now it's a bit hard for Americans to try to understand something as complex as this but for the sake of the country, for the world, we must get into the mind of the terrorists to stop them/  "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." This message was edited by IkeaBoy on 3-13-02 @ 1:26 PM | ||||
| R20mg | posted on 03-13-2002 @ 11:47 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | ikeaboy, I can respect your sentiment that we should understand the mind of a terrorist to stop it, but frankly that is the same notion that has resulted in the end of countries, empires, and people throughout history. When a country or entity(such as the US or historic Rome) has advanced in every aspect of civilization ahead of other countries, or people, it creates an unbreachable gap between the two. You could put all terrorist and Americans in a class forever to learn not to hate one another, and it would accomplish nothing. This is not the time for cerebral thought, it is a time for animal response. The cocksucking terrorist showed a lack of every respect on September 11th and we should respond in kind. They tried to terrorize us into panic with a cowardly assault.Stupid them. We should show them what true terror is as we wipe them from existence. Pugilism requires no thought. The United States will become the ever- picked on kid at school if we take the time to analyze every move we make. We should be the scrappy kid that even the bully doesn't fuck with for fear of an asswhippin. so in summation, they through the first punch, so it's time to put them down hard. | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 12:32 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:I never said analyze every move we make. I'm not pro-terrorist either. I'm saying that to prevent this we have to know WHY they hate us so much to take out the terrorists. The thing about terrorists is WE DON'T KNOW WHO AND WHERE THEY ARE!! HOw many terrorists do you think are in this country? Plenty. Do you think by wiping out a country we'll wipe out the terrorists? No. Why? Because the terrorist and terrorist cells are everywhere including the US. We need to plan strategically. "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 6:01 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: You're so right, Monocracy. The power OS propaganda is immeasurable, indeed. quote: Anyone who actually writes an expression like this deserves to be ass-raped by Magic Johnson. quote: Translation: "You guys have disproved too many of my points and I have no comeback, other than to keep repeating myself or to just label you all retarded, so I'll stop posting under this name and pop up under a new screen name in a couple of weeks so I can start this all over again. For the record, I don't know of any Americans who are happy that innocent Afghan citizens died. The loss of innocent life is always a tragedy. However, as I said before, we would never had to go into Afghanistan if they had simply surrendered Bin Laden, nor better yet, if Bin Laden had never started this by attacking us first. However, I myself have become a hypocrite. I mock people for taking about the war on a section that is supposed to be about The Opie And Anthony show, yet I've been doing the same. So from now on, any posts I have about the war will only appear either in the "Off-Topic" section or the "F-U Board". Proud to be an American, no matter what propagana Monocracy spreads. "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 3:13 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | You know Redhead, criticizing the government does NOT make you anti-American in anyway shape or form even in our current social climate. In fact, it's what America is based on. Why does mindlessly following your government bashing anyone who might offer a dissenting view make you a better person than say the Afghanis who mindlessly follow their leaders and ostracize anyone who does differently? You offer no intelligent discussion or debate except simply to say 'kill them all.' and criticizing someone because of a spelling error is just lame you stupid fucker. I'm sure not all of your posts have perfect spelling. "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 3:49 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: Hi, Ikeaboy. Since this is really not about Opie and Anthony, I posted my response to you on the "Off-Topic" board. Please visit me there if you want to continue this discussion. Thank you. "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| Harry Ballzanya | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 7:59 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | quote: Thats very true, I definately agree with that, we dont know where EVERY terrorist is..however, we do know where most of them are and as of now our agenda is to wipe them out. Will this get rid of every possible terrorist threat? hell no. But for the ones that we dont get to, it sure as hell will make them think twice before trying anything stupid. -------------------------------------------------  | ||||
| Senor_Doobie | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 9:29 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Oct. 00 | Oh no...Redhead's leaving the discussion. I for one will miss him dearly. I have to wonder if any of you people are even reading my posts. Don't be blinded by your patriotism people. Someone up there brings up the Republican and Democratic parties as if there is any difference between the two parties whatsoever that truly matters. Both are equally corrupt and both kneel before the mighty plutocracy who is seriously running this country. Let me tell you that I was not raised to be a liberal. My dad is a seriously gung-ho Republican and I followed in his footsteps through most of my youth. Finally, I started to se the light and now realize that the entire political system in which we operate is a fraud. The media in this country is certainly biased, although they make it look unbiased. Every election year the American public is given a choice between two equally evil candidates. That is not to say that there aren't other viable candidates, but only two get any serious television/print news coverage. The fact is that the soul of both of your basic two parties has been ripped out years ago, and what you are left with is two legions of scammers, who disagree on frivolous issues such as social security and the environment, but agree whole-heartedly on serious issues like campaign finance. And we the sheep call it freedom of choise as the plutocracy can rest assured that their interests will be ensured. For example, when is the last time you heard a politician talk about the hydrogen fuel cell? Especially in this day and age when oil dependancy could lead to the obliteration of the West (it is afterall what funds terrorism, not that they talk about that much on TV..they're much happier blaming drugs, even though G-Dub himself gave the Taliban $40,000,000 not more than a year ago because they banned the growth of poppies in Afghanistan). And how come nobody's answering my questions? What are the objectives of the war, besides of course to end terror? How do we know when we have done that? Why isn't Saudi Arabia a member of the axis of evil? Why doesn't the free and unbiased press ask these questions? What does it all mean? | ||||
| f-boston | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 10:13 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Oct. 01 | quote: How exactly? quote: Ponderous... Where you come from, what parties are available there? quote: hmmm... huh? quote: maybe because you and your agenda make no sense. FUCK Boston, and Anti-American hippies | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-14-2002 @ 10:16 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | actually f-boston Doobie, makes a few intersting points including how our president is oil's bitch yet we never hear about how oil is what funds the terrorists most of all. And that the country IS controlled by the rich and empowered- not the people. I'm not complaining or wishing for a change, I'm just saying it's a fact. "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." | ||||
| palmice | posted on 03-15-2002 @ 3:57 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | This whole thread is, in it of itself, stupidly outrageous. You’ve got a whole list of people prattling off about things, that while they might be true, are not the issue at heart. Senor doobie comes in here and sounds like a complete and total idiot--at least, to those of you whose lives consist of what is tangible around you (i.e. your daily life) and that which is ingrained into you by the mass media. You may even classify yourself as educated, informed, or the like. But it is quite obvious to any person who thinks objectively, conceptually and for themselves that most of you are totally unaware, uninformed, and totally complacent in your insular consumerist ways. It’s not your fault though--it's your society. As long as you have a job, and the political/economic system is ostensibly stable then it is all good. Senor doobie, he makes no sense. he sounds like some sort of radical that they were supposed to have done away with in the 70s. He doesn't make sense to you because no one has a clear thesis, and you are all arguing points without truly going into any discourse. Regardless--I just thought I’d respond to this nice little jingoistic signature: quote: I’m going to go out on a limb and say that this has to do with people who speak out against the so-called "War on Terrorism." If this is the case, then there is some serious fundamental illogic in the way that you think. Someone who speaks out against the war is not anti-American. They are, more than likely, simply critical thinkers who realize that this is an imperial war, being waged by the ruling elites, as part of a geopolitical stratagem to fill of the vacuum created by the collapse of the "communist" states. That said, you can’t really judge someone on their level of "Americaness" by their support for this war. To paraphrase, when you speak out against a war in public, you should expect opposition. Many will ask you “whose side are you on?†My reply is simple: I am on the side of the people who will be the victims of the war-of death, destruction, despair and hopelessness-wherever they live, and not the people who plan the war. I am on the side of the innocent soldier who is sent into battle to die to help maintain a position of preeminence and global hegemony where a few benefit and the majority toil. I am on the side of the working man, woman who is forced to bear the brunt of this so-called “War on Terror:†defense budget up from $280b to $380b, deficit spending, the inflation that looms after this period of stagnation, and of course, death and destruction. Finally, I’m on the side of peace-not violence-irregardless of any sort of hippie stereotype. /// This is a war that was brought onto us by atrocities committed by previous ruling American elite-there is no real way to deny that. This was not a random attack on our culture because we have McDonald’s in every country and we allow our women to vote, or solely because he back the state of Israel. While killing American civilians, Americans are most certainly not responsible. Not the America that most of you know, anyway. The America of the people who work for a living did not provoke the attack-but they received the retribution. The America of the ruling elite created the environment for all of these things, but again, it is The America of the vast majority who carries the weight, and who, in the end, is the vessel for the success of the ruling elite. Not once has the media ever attempted to perform an objective analysis of where this hate comes from. After 9/11, we were provided with nothing but an endless recap of what actually happened, a continuous flow of statements saying that we are now at war and must accept the consequences of war, and last but not least, the endless flow of self-appointed experts discussing terror. NOT ONCE has a totally objective analysis been provided and thoroughly broadcasted by the American media—NOT ONCE. How many of you would kill a dandelion by simply snipping it off where it grows? There is no logic in that-any person of reasonable intellect would look to the root as the source and thus eliminate it. We are currently snipping off the dandelion, while the root stays in place. Nothing will change, except our democratic liberties will be continually diminished, and more people will die. The Bush Administration, or any Administration after will NEVER, EVER rid the world of so-called terrorism by using military means. NEVER, NOT IN A THOUSAND TRILLION YEARS. Honestly, ponder the illogic in the position of snipping the dandelion where it grows. Any sensible person would go for the root. You’re all going to dismiss me, though, and that’s ok. As long as you have your jobs, it’s all good. Say the following phrase over and over every night until you go to sleep: The future holds the same things as the past-economic prosperity (and growth,) the increase of the average man’s purchasing power, and a general world in where Western culture, industry, economy and military is preeminent, more specifically, The America. In the end, I am very much American and very much a patriot. However, I am not a mindless and heedless pawn like the majority of you flag wavers. I recognize that my country is the people-not the corrupt politicians and capital-holders who own them. Eventually, you’re all going to realize this as well. Let us hope that it isn’t amidst an economic collapse, or vanquishing and occupation. Now, before your nationalism takes ahold of you and takes away your last bit of objectivity, please take heed. Do not reply to me without specifically citing with what it is you have your problem-and clearly refuting everything that it is that I say. And keep your emotions out of it. Let's keep it objective, and I'll continue. | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-15-2002 @ 5:11 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | I promised to stop doing this, but you raised some points I felt needed to be addressed...quote: I think this is a very good point. It's fine to disagree with the war. But I think the anger thats permeated on this board was caused by the way in which some posters bashed the war effort. If you say "I don't agree with the war because I think too many Afghan citizens are getting killed and too many Al-Queda are getting away", there's nothing Anti-American about that. If you say, " ALL AMERICANS ARE HYPOCRITES! EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS STUPID! WE BROUGHT THE TERRORIST ATTACKS ON OURSELVES!", well, then I think this does qualify as an Anti-American slant. quote: You're 100% right. While we're focused on Afghanistan, how many terrorist cells are in America right now, waiting to strike? quote: Why? You made some very valid points. My issue with Monocracy wasn't so much his views on the war, it was the fact that he kept calling us idiots from day one. In one of his first posts, he called us a bunch of eight-year-old. So, yes, I did react to him in infantile ways, solely to give him a taste of his own medicine. It's fine to offer a debate, but he shouldn't have started it out by telling us tthat we were all stupid and that only his view was the right one. quote: I've seen this again and again. People keep saying that the Sept. 11th attacks were a REACTION instead of an action. But when I ask what the terrorists were REACTING to, no one seems to know. Specifically, what atrocities are you refering to here? quote: This is where you lose me. Is our government perfect? Of course not. But I do believe that our government, despite its flaws, is the best one out there. I'm glad we live in a country that embraces all races and religions. I'm proud to live in a country that continuously offers aid to those less fortunate. And, like all Americans, I enjoy the freedoms we're given. Isn't it comforting to know we can all take part in a debate like this and not have to worry about one of us being killed by the government for our beliefs? And, yes, I'm fully aware that I'm a total hypocrite for posting this here after I said I'd only talk about this in the off-topic section, but I was just too lazy to move my discussion this time... "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| palmice | posted on 03-15-2002 @ 6:38 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: There are many ways to look at this. The most obvious arise from the Muslim states. But it should be made clear that the desire to destroy America and Western society is not simply from a crazy pack of burnoosed Arabs in the deserts of the middle east. I’ll quote, quote: One could also point to the onslaught of imperial wars waged in the 90s in general as another reason for the vacuum of hate to flourish. quote: Let us not forget the globalization of the market-as in Asia, Africa, South America, and the like-on the terms of foreign capital which means privatization, i.e. foreign bonds dominate the government, rather than attempting to create a real infrastructure to benefit the people. Cheap labor is used to build things that are exported around the world for sale, usually trinkets. All of their income comes from abroad, with an infrastructure that is nearly nonexistent. This keeps them at the will of demand for their well being—I’m sure you can figure the rest out. The process of economic exploitation that led to such things as the Asian crisis in the late 90s (which also hit Brazil and Russia) and more recently Argentina is just the tip of the iceberg. The process of taking capital abroad has had both the effect of taking away our jobs in the name of being competitive and inevitably impoverishing the people who the jobs are given to. I’m not saying that this alone sent planes into buildings, but the style of strip-mining developing nations for their labor and resources is something that certainly foments a atmosphere where this type of crazy reactionary behavior will take place. One could also point to the general level of arrogance expressed by our politicians—blatant insults to our European allies as of recently. Or the fact that the Bush Administration, or any one recently prior, has felt that they answer to no one but their corporate (this is not some left wing liberal 'hippie' cliche statement, either.) I am certainly not saying that we deserved 9/11—what I am saying is that it is absolutely ridiculous that we are taking this path, and not seriously considering any sort of the implications. quote: Our elected officials represent us to the rest of the world--but they really don’t represent the interests of the public. Partisanship was eliminated after 9/11 (not that it, beyond superficiality, mattered before) when the democrats announced that we were one nation united against the “War on Terror.†Yes, we are a very free country, one could make an argument for the freest in the world. However, the “War on Terror†created the Office of Homeland Security, and effectively combined the CIA with the FBI—international espionage and mainland policing. Had this been presented to you on 9/10/01 you would have probably considered a vast move towards a police-state. After 9/11/01, we are fighting a war, and we must accept the consequences of that war—an endless and unilateral military campaign abroad and a crackdown on civil liberties at home, so says Mr. Media and Mr. President. There is far more to this than I can address now. By the way, I wasn’t specifically addressing you when I said you would dismiss me. I just mean in general. I realize what I am saying certainly deviates from what is discussed in the average middle-class circle. I understand that we are a country who has been conditioned to denounce things that are contrary to what we practice, to quickly label things as radical or the like. quote: We can now begin to understand why so many people really do hate us. This is by no means a total picture--but certainly something worth considering. Using the military as a political tool is nothing new, and now, with no Soviet union and new precision guided munitions, the politicians consider it a low-risk way of achieving objectives. Resource domination, economic exploitation and a foreign policy, to top it off, that says "God Bless America, we dictate and you do, and we don't really care about you." Consider this objectively: How would it make you feel? I think i've made it abundantly clear--I DO NOT SUPPORT TERROR AND I AM A PATRIOT, TO COUNTRY, AMERICA AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. I do not condone these atrocities! I just feel that this, if anything, should have awakened the American public and not created an even more explosive situation than before. | ||||
| Donny | posted on 03-15-2002 @ 7:32 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 02 | We've come very, very far in countless ways, technologically to name just one...BUT from a "human" point of view we've been stagnant - effin' plain and simple. Cave men were bashing in the heads of their fellow cave dwellers as happens today. I got one point about the 9-11 attack - there is no way on earth or anywhere else that you can justify that. So shut up already - all you sympathetic, rationalizing, anti-american "this and that" fuckholes. Someone said we seek "justice." I believe that. ________________________________________________________ This message was edited by Donny on 3-15-02 @ 7:56 AM | ||||
| palmice | posted on 03-15-2002 @ 2:15 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: And where do you expect this justice to be found? Even if they catch bin Laden-whether he had anything to do with it or not-it's not going to solve ANYTHING. bin Laden is just a figurehead, and it's pretty ludicrous to assume that the entire U.S. military was mobilized in the pursuit of a single man. You want justice-and more than likely and end to terror. If anything, this is going to further their cause. The U.S. military cannot possibly occupy EVERY country in the world. So, in order to rid ourself of these "terrorists" we're going to need to either literally turn ourselves into a fully monitored police state, or root the terrorists-literally, as described above. Now the inevitable question--How do you root the terrorists? Can you not see the illogic in this position? _IT IS VIOLENCE THAT CREATED TERROR-VIOLENCE DOESN'T GET RID OF TERROR_ | ||||
| f-boston | posted on 03-15-2002 @ 3:28 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Oct. 01 | quote: Then if you could, and without giving us a dissertation as before, tell us how you solve the problem at hand? Exactly what do you do? Do you just sit back and say: "well shit, they rammed planes into our buildings, and we're not going to respond at all. we won't give them that satisfaction." How, without force, do you attempt to fix the problem? And please, don't even dare say that because of our military actions in the past, that we "deserved" this, or even attempt to justify why the terrorists have such a crusade against us. Anything to say to that end is horse-shit. FUCK Boston, and Anti-American hippies | ||||
| palmice | posted on 03-16-2002 @ 12:47 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | 1) Withdrawal of military forces from Middle East/Balkans/Africa (basically anything other than the states occupied during WW2--we rightfully can keep those, the rest are imperial.) 2) Use of the same international banks that destroyed economies to rebuild them--although the "miracle" Asian economies are doing just fine now, and certainly won't be looking Westward for political clout in the future . Essentially, a non-superificial transformation from the self-appointed policeman of the world for its own monetary and strategic interests, to a country that actually practices what it preaches: Equality, Freedom, and Democracy (demos meaning the people, cracy to be strong) I suppose war reparations are in order as well, for any country that our troops have assaulted not only for geopolitical interests, but when their job was to support militaristic despotic regimes trying to conquer nationalistic ones. Essententially, as in El Salvador, regimes that want to take the country's resources and core industries to benefit the people are quickly branded as "communist" and find themselves up against a well equipped and prepared foe with an endless supply of resources. Why would this be? Why would a government, that so many of you believe is both for and by its people, try to destroy nationalistic regimes? Any objective analysis would tell you that they are far more interested in keeping the notion alive that the market is the only way to satisfy human needs-and that privitization of finite natural resources is perfectly natural, and that any diversion from this path will quickly result in a Stalinist state. The rest of the world sees our exploitive economic system as a joke, and it really is--they realize everything that was "anti-communist" was really just a projection of American military might to every corner of the globe, so that a few people could retain their claim to the labor of the masses. Meanwhile they're starving and we're watching the 10o'clock news. I realize it's hard for most to understand, but you certainly cannot ignore the "anti-communism" as another source for hate: "We" kill to protect "our" wealth. quote: But why? FAR MORE civilians have been killed in the 1990s at the hands of American or American led NATO operations, and in the embargo placed on Iraq. If we were under siege, would you not seek retribution? In fact you would-that is your call to arms here. We were attacked-we need retribution. But any objective analysis would rename the "War on Terror" as the "War on the elimination of retribution for previous atrocities." When does the cycle end? Never. Certainly you must understand that I don't think we "deserved" it--but I'm not going to sit here like the average asshole while the state-controlled media tells me over and over that this was a random attack on our culture without any possibiliy for provocation. Are you under the impression that, honestly, this was an isolated incident, and the so-called terrorist cells are all radical reactionary off-shoots of some training camps in the Middle East? Most of the world hates the West. Most of the West hates America. no cliche statement here. | ||||
| xguitar007 | posted on 03-16-2002 @ 2:01 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | Don't any of you get it?! CNN and Fox News CANNOT do anything objectionable to what the mainstream wants. If they do, people will stop watching. CNN started to ask "questions" in October and since then, they have dropped to Number 2 behind Fox News. Now, CNN is focused on the mainstream views and does not object that much to them, because they lose BUSINESS. It's not government controlled, it's called CAPITALISM and if you don't like it, tough SHIT. Of course, the war news primarily involves trusting the government. However, after Nixon and Clinton, CAN YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO TRUST THE GOV'T? I personnally, like Pres. Bush. I think he's a lot smarter than many peeps give him credit for. Plus, he too has to follow mainstream opinion. When 80% of America likes what he is doing, he's not gonna say "Ohh crap, I'm offending or ignoring the other 20%." RIGHT OR WRONG, that's the way it is. Accept it. I am not a fan of the death penalty and am a pretty big environment person, but I still voted for Bush. I don't agree with several of his views, but THAT's OK! This is America and we're allowed to disagree. I respect everyone's opinion in this board, but everybody need's to realize the realistic stuff. Here is the goal: -Peace between Palestine and Israel and that will alleviate most of the problems. -End Terrorism, all of the organizations (at least)We can't stop it all, especially individual acts. -Realistic Open-Minded people across the world. (I'd proofread, but I'm tired... later) | ||||
| Magneto | posted on 03-16-2002 @ 7:28 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | To Senor_Doobie quote: I'm sure it has nothing to do the the condescending attitude that's just dripping from your posts :rolleyes: For future reference, beginning a debate by calling your listeners stupid and a bunch of sheep may not be the most effective way to encourage active participation. And what would be the point of answering your questions? You're obviously firmly cemented in your views, and nothing we say will change your mind. You don't want a "debate", you want us to defend America so you can tell us how stupid we are for believing in our own government. You want to continue to "educate" us, fine, but please stop pretending you really care about what we have to say. Personally, I support the steps the Bush administration has taken since Sept. 11th, and I don't really feel like being called an idiot because of it. To Redhead Lover quote: No offense, Red, but please try to remember to take your medications in the future. One minute you're rationally raising some good points, and the next you blow up and start flaming at everyone. Yes, Monocracy was a little arrogant, but you flipped out on him like he was the fucking Anti-Christ! Monocracy is just entitled to his opinions as you are. Just some friendly advice, in the future, do yourself, and us, a favor and take a few seconds before you post. Don't get so emotional, because you've really been stepping on some toes lately. I agree with some of your thoughts. I just think you need to drop the attitude. | ||||
| Senor_Doobie | posted on 03-16-2002 @ 11:39 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Oct. 00 | I have not personally attacked anyone in this thread (except for Redhead but he's more interested in flaming than thinking). I have called the American public ignorant sheep but I thought that was a given. Secondly, if I didn't care what you thought I wouldn't be participating in this thread. My agenda is only to get people to start asking questions. If not immediately, then eventually. I'm just trying to plant some seeds for critical thought. People have been responding to my posts, so I doubt my "condescending attitude" has anything to do with why my questions go unanswered. Now, if you like, you can prove me wrong. Pretend these questions came from someone you like and answer them. 1. If the goal of our war is to end terrorism, then why is Saudi Arabia not included in the axis of evil? 2. What are the objectives of the war, i.e. when will it end? 3. Why aren't any of our politicians talking about eliminating our dependancy on oil, especially now that the fuel cell is so close to completion? What does it all mean? | ||||
| diceisgod I ALWAYS LOSE. | posted on 03-16-2002 @ 3:03 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Dec. 01 | Cowards Nobody fucks with Dice, Dice does the fuckin! | ||||
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