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Posted ByDiscussion Topic: FU to peace groups saying that war against terrorism is not the answer
TeenWeek
what's a status?
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 7:56 AM      
O&A Board Regular
Registered: Oct. 00
quote:

Peace vigils planned throughout the US

Amid talk of war, movement pleads for reconciliation

By Alice Dembner and David Abel, Globe Staff, 9/18/2001

TODAY'S GLOBE


NEW YORK - They are gathering quietly in vigils, not mounting protests. And they are largely being drowned out by a feverish tide of war rhetoric.


But across the country, voices of pacificism and restraint are growing stronger.


Little more than a mile from ground zero of the incinerated World Trade Center, a vigil at Union Square for the victims has already evolved into an ad hoc center for the budding peace movement. The square's monument to George Washington is not only draped in American flags, but also covered with antiwar slogans.


Peace vigils have been held from Portland, Ore., to Cambridge, Mass., and hundreds more are planned over the coming weeks.


More than 100 civil rights and religious organizations plan to gather Thursday in Washington to map a larger response to last week's terrorism, hoping to moderate the government's support for military strikes abroad and expanded law enforcement powers at home.


Separately, peace groups will gather in New York Friday to plan national action against President Bush's declared ''war on terrorism,'' arguing that war is not the answer and will only add to the carnage.


''We're mobilizing the peace community to call for reconciliation, not retaliation,'' said Judith Mahoney Pasternak of the War Resisters League. ''The faster we start singing the songs of peace to counter the drums of war, the better it's going to be.''


While the War Resisters League said their organizing efforts have been hampered by phone and e-mail failures at their offices only 11/2 miles from ground zero, other groups said they had been moving slowly out of respect for the victims.


''We are committed to building public opinion in our communities and then moving in the near future to a national expression,'' said Judith McDaniel at the national office of the American Friends Service Committee in Philadelphia. She confirmed that the office has received several bomb threats since it launched a national ''No More Victims'' peace campaign.


Meanwhile, some in Congress are questioning whether lawmakers are rushing into actions that will harm America. Senator Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, yesterday said he is worried that the push to relax wiretapping restrictions could infringe on civil liberties.


''We do not intend to tie the hands of the intelligence community, but neither do we intend to curb the rights of millions of Americans,'' he said.


And Representative Barbara Lee, the California Democrat who was the only member of Congress to vote against last week's resolution authorizing President Bush to use force against terrorism, says there is growing support for her stand.


''People are beginning to understand that we must show some restraint, that we don't want to see this spiral out of control,'' Lee said. ''We've got to make sure democracy is upheld and our country is safe.''


It's not only pacifists who oppose the war rhetoric, but also others who look to history and see failures and abuses when the United States moved without enough thought.


In 1998, they note, US forces bombed a suspected chemical weapons plant in Sudan that turned out to be a pharmaceutical factory. And in World War II, hysteria led the United States to round up Japanese-Americans into internment camps.


''I really have a problem with the war analogy,'' said Stephen Zunes, chairman of the peace and justice studies program at the University of San Francisco. ''This was not an act of war but a criminal act. We need to think in terms of police actions in response. But I don't think it would be unreasonable to have small-scale commando operations to break up the terrorist cells.''


Longtime pacifist and MIT professor Noam Chomsky opposes even that action. ''A call for revenge without thinking about what lies beyond is a gift to the terrorists,'' he said. ''It virtually guarantees an escalating cycle of violence. An alternative in the short term is to follow the rule of law through the United Nations Security Council or the World Court.''


Retired Boston University historian Howard Zinn suggests that the answers to terrorism lie elsewhere. ''We have to move from a war-making nation to a nation that uses its resources for constructive purposes ... to get at the grievances that feed terrorism,'' he said.


In the Boston area, peace vigils are planned at noon today at the JFK Federal Building and at 6 p.m. tomorrow at Copley Square, with a planning meeting for more events to follow. At Tufts University, members of the peace and justice studies program are circulating a petition urging that ''the search for justice'' focus only on the perpetrators of the crime, avoid targeting entire nationalities, and respect civil liberties.


At Union Square in New York, young and old, Jews and gentiles, blacks and whites have gathered around thousands of votive candles, American flags, and pictures of the missing to pay their respects and chant such slogans as ''Vengeance isn't justice'' and ''Break the cycle of violence: War is weakness, peace is strength.''


''People need to know that there are other feelings in America, that we are not all hawks hoping to exchange an eye for an eye,'' said Josh Torpey, 24, a Manhattan teacher who met a group of friends on Union Square Sunday night.


Ted Lawson, a 31-year-old artist from Boston, was creating a painting of the American flag out of thumbprints of passersby to signify American unity, but said he wondered whether previous acts of war by the United States had encouraged terrorism.


Heated arguments have erupted throughout the park between those who question US policy and those who believe the United States should annihilate any group or country who helped organize the attacks.


But others were frightened about the prospect for war. Lighting a candle next to a row of roses arranged to evoke the World Trade Center, Christine Andriopoulos said she was scared.


''The message should be that the violence has to stop,'' she said. ''Here. Now. Forever.''



These people have got to be kidding me. Now is not the time for these fag assholes who want to reconcile with these terrorists instead of retaliate. War is the only thing these miserable scum understand. It looks like we will now have over 6000 dead Americans from this tragedy. If we do nothing now, who knows what could happen next. If they use chemical weapons, the death toll could reach hundreds of thousands. We need to do away with these scumbags now. And the entire country needs to be United and support our government in this time of war.

FoundryMusicJeff
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 8:39 AM      
O&A Board Regular
Registered: Jan. 01
I used to date a girl like this. It's the same naievete across the board. What they don't seem to realize is not everyone shares their enlightened view of existence, and more importantly, there's a peace that can only be found through war.

Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A)

Visit FoundryMusic & Chat
whichwaymediumorrare
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 9:18 AM      
Psychopath
Registered: Apr. 01
well said jeff.this is all we need,people who think we can have it both ways.you cant.you have tried the peace thing,you tried talking,you tried starving them,cutting off supplies.none of it works.the only thing these assholes in these third world countries understand is war.they live it and breathe it.so know we give them what they want.we kill all of them.talk time is over.time to feel some pain like we have had to all these years and doing nothing about.democrats.what a waste.thank bill.spent to much time getting head instead of watching our country.


"well hello mr. fancy pants.i got news for you pal,you aint leadin but two things right now,jack and shit and jack left town." "good,bad..... i am the guy with the gun."

This message was edited by whichwaymediumorrare on 9-19-01 @ 9:31 AM
Doc Smith
I Love Anthony Zinni
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 9:39 AM      
O&A Board Regular
Registered: Sep. 00
This is the exact reason why stupid people shouldn't breed.

Twice as many people died last Tuesday than did at Pearl Harbor. This was the most blood spilt on American soil since the Civil War.

And we need peace? Jesus Christ on a go-cart, why are people so fucking stupid


If I ever had twins
I'd use one for parts


This message was edited by Doc Smith on 9-19-01 @ 10:01 AM
Mi1o Yambag
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 2:34 PM      
O&A Board Regular
Registered: Oct. 00
Fuck these pussies! I've been a pacifist most of my life, and usaully agree that war isn't the answer, but fuck! there have got to be exceptions, and this is the biggest goddamn reason for war that I've ever seen.



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IkeaBoy
P.L.F.
Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal
I will die a traitor's death
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 6:27 PM      
O&A Board Veteran
Registered: Sep. 00
i go to nyu, a sickenly liberal to school and like I seem to be the only one who realizes that YOU NEED WAR TO MAKE PEACE!! See these people think they are so enlightened because they live by this "theory"- Violence is Bad. Yes, violence, in most cases, /IS/ bad. But this is one of the special cases where you need violence in order to assure peace. The world is not white and black, you can't just take your white dove philosophy and follow it all the time. You need to look at each individual situation and live by that.

By doing nothing, the Towers and Pentagon were attacked. So by doing nothing we're going to be safe? NO!!! By doign nothing we aren't telling the terrorists "We're above you" we're telling them "We're afraid, you attacked us, people die and we can't get over it" and they'll do it again because they figure that we are so crippled that this is the perfect time for more and more attacks.


"Drop the Bomb, Exterminate them all"- Colonel Kurtz
RainDancer
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 8:52 PM      
Hanger-On
Registered: Sep. 01
I agree that you can't have it both ways, but i also understand how you can be torn between the two. I would love the terrorist to get what is coming to them but i'm afraid of what would happen if we do go to war.

VooDude
posted on 09-19-2001 @ 9:18 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Aug. 01
quote:

Doc Smith: Twice as many people died last Tuesday than did at Pearl Harbor

quote:

RainDancer: i'm afraid of what would happen if we do go to war

During WWII, our Grandparents (and Great Grandparents for some of you) faced a much larger and capable enemy than we face now. They were afraid also, but they knew what had to be done. They paid a great price, but they got the job done. What are we going to do to ensure the security of our GrandChildren?


"Uncommon valor was a common virtue."

USMC - Though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil, because I'm the baddest motherfucker in the valley.

This message was edited by VooDude on 9-19-01 @ 9:23 PM

WookiePoolParty
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 4:22 AM      
Psychopath
Registered: Mar. 01
I have to think that most of these people weren't truly affected by what happened. Anyone who actually realizes the enormity of it would know that we have to do all we can to ensure this is the last time this happens on our soil.

The next time someone tells you peace is the answer, look then dead square in the eye and say, "Don't you see that YOU will be the next to die? Your kids will be the next to die? Your parents will be the next to die?" If that doesn't sink it in, nothing will. Because that is the assumption we all have to work with now.


James John Maceiko Jr.
United States Citizen
Resident of New York City, Manhattan
RainDancer
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 11:22 AM      
Hanger-On
Registered: Sep. 01
I'm not saying that we shouldn't. I do understand what has happened and what has to be done but i still fear the consiquences. I believe people should be punished for this. I'm not belittling war. I think it is for the best but that doesn't make me feel any better about it.

Claire
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 1:15 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Feb. 01
Those groups are pushing reconciliation? I believe a "reconciliation" would be, over 5500 of our people dead, so an equal amount of terrorists dead. How 'bout that.

From this liberal former pacifist...death for death.


Hey I'd like to daze away to a place no one has known
In a state of mind I could call mine and only I could own
Where I can hum a tune any time I choose and there's no such thing as time
Where I can feel no pain just calm and sane what a place for one to find
IkeaBoy
P.L.F.
Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal
I will die a traitor's death
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 1:22 PM      
O&A Board Veteran
Registered: Sep. 00
What are we reconciling!!! This isn't a bad relationship, it's not like they broke up and a car was destroyed. people died and there was never a major relationship there in the first place.

These people piss me off as much as those Catholics who forgive their children's murderers because "God would do the same thing."


"Drop the Bomb, Exterminate them all"- Colonel Kurtz
IrishAlkey
Chucky
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posted on 09-20-2001 @ 2:10 PM      
O&A Board Veteran
Registered: Aug. 01
quote:

there's a peace that can only be found through war.


Fucking Bingo!!!



"And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free, and I won't forget the men who died, who gave that right to me."

Graduate of Austin U...where only the strong survive!...good lookin' for the sig pic graphics Austin :)
New Fan
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 2:19 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Aug. 01
just so that everyone is up to date and educated

Peace groups were invented by the French and not Howard Stern


Forgotten but not gone(Im still here-God damn it)
Faceman
...And now the battle between us and them has begun.

JYD-4-LIFE.

posted on 09-20-2001 @ 2:28 PM      
O&A Board Veteran
Registered: May. 00
quote:

During WWII, our Grandparents (and Great Grandparents for some of you) faced a much larger and capable enemy than we face now.



gotta disagree with you there to a point. sure the german and japanese armies are physically superior to the afghan army, BUT i dont believe that they had the convictions that the afghans have nowadays. the japanese attack was an attack on a military foe in a time of war. this current act of terrorism was against civilians in peace time. its a big distinction in my book and shows their willingness to do anything to further their own cause and thats the most dangerous foe you can face. plus the idea that the people that follow their ideals maybe living in our own backyard makes them a possibly more dangerous foe than any other we've ever faced. dont be fooled by anything you read, this isnt going to be a quick and easy war. its gonna be long and drawn out, which will probably make the ending more satisfying, but i could be wrong




"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country. but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman-Thomas Paine"



Now with a new and improved AIM name. IM Faceman713 for all your oa.com needs:)
Filzy
Stand up straight
Stomach in
Shoulders back
SOUND OFF!!!
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 4:51 PM      
O&A Board Regular
Registered: Sep. 00
REALITY CHECK!

War is a regrettable necesssity, but peace follows soon after war is over.
Terrorists don't know what peace is, why do you think they're called terrorists?




USA was made out of beer, tobacco, and conflict.
If you touch my beer, I will kick your ass, don't forget to empty the ashtray.


Now accepting two recruits for the revived Armored Division.





Sluggo667
SLASH's New Buddy, but shhh...
I am not allowed to tell anyone.
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 6:20 PM      
O&A Board Regular
Registered: Apr. 01
Why don't we send all of the "Doves" over to Afganistan...
Maybe they can talk some sense into these terrorists.
Yeah...That's it...They'll listen to them.


Sluggo667
VooDude
posted on 09-20-2001 @ 8:27 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Aug. 01
Faceman, I agree with your point. I was just thinking of the size and strength of the armies that our Grandparents had to face. The scary part for us, is not being able to find the enemy. The uncertainty of how things may turn out is what we share with the WWII generation...


"Uncommon valor was a common virtue."

USMC - Though I walk through the valley of death, I will fear no evil, because I'm the baddest motherfucker in the valley.

Brittney
posted on 09-22-2001 @ 2:07 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Jun. 01
Menlo Park, NJ, last night...right outside the diner, there were a group of peace-loving, tree hugging hippies with signs against war. "Peace." and others. It's THOSE fucking people who should be down at ground zero, picking up fucking body parts. Then, maybe, just fucking maybe they would realize how big this really is, and how crucial war is right now.
Don't wage war. That's ridiculous. What are we to do, then, go over, shake fucking Osama Diaper Head's hand, and say, "Hey thanks for killing 6,000 Americans. We want to be your friend now, so could you not do that again, Thanks." FUCKING RETARDS!!! Do I want to see us go to war, and possibly have more American bloodshed, No...but there is NO OTHER WAY. People need to wake the fuck up and get out of the "Peace cloud" that we've been living in for the past few years.

DR. Buster Hymen
posted on 09-22-2001 @ 3:39 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Oct. 00
Ditto to all your feelings.

What these people don't understand, is that these terrorists have been around & "tolerated" for decades. Israel has been fighting them since it's inception. And there are not a few dozen; there are thousands-and even more potentials (in the surrounding countries). And the only way to deal with these fanatics and safeguard our country & lives is TO WIPE THEM OUT!!! Period!!! They don't want to negotiate; just to destroy our country And ALL OF US!!! Otherwise, we have the option of turning into a military state (like Israel).

Unfortunately, there are some intelligent leaders-such as Howard Zinn-who don't seem to be able to understand these concepts.

I'd bet that none of these "pacifists" had any direct family or friends who died on 9/11. It's funny how being touched by such an event would greatly change one's point of view.

TO THE GUYS IN "THE HOLE": I'M WITH YOU
DR. Buster Hymen
Buster_Hymen@opieanthony.com

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Kid Touching Corps
posted on 09-24-2001 @ 11:28 PM      
Psychopath
Registered: Apr. 01
To quote the great Winston Churchell:

A Nazi dog is either under your heel or at your throat

Thats why death is the only answer for these monsters. When someone has cancer, you do one of two things. You cut it out or let it kill you. There is no talking with it, no nigotiating with it, there is no bargaining with it. Radical Islam is nothing short of a fucking cancer. As far as I'm concerned, throw ALL of these people in ovens. The world WILL be a better place.


Thanks for the pic, Sephiroth

"Gimmy the bat, faggit"
"I AM ZEROMUS. I AM THE HATRED!"

Graduated from ShinRa Inc. Newbie School Sanction, so suck it.....whitey.
IkeaBoy
P.L.F.
Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal
I will die a traitor's death
posted on 09-25-2001 @ 12:11 AM      
O&A Board Veteran
Registered: Sep. 00
i hope that some day I see two anti-war people get into a fist fight over the right way to handle/not handle the situation. It wouuld just be so pleasurable.



"I didn't realize how tragic it [the WTC attack] was until the celebrities told me"- Ron Bennington



Displaying 1-22 of 22 messages in this thread.