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 Displaying 51-75 of 101 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: The issue of God | ||||
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| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 1:27 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01  | quote: *breathes sigh of relief* Thank God my faith isn't blind, then! :) If you don't QUESTION where you put your faith and your trust, then you DO have blind faith. I question my parents, my government, my teachers, my boss, and especially my God. God WANT you to question Him, I believe, because then, if you DO follow Him, YOU have CHOSEN Him. You have made the conscience decision to follow Him. "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I believed as a child. Now I am a man, and I speak as a man, and I believe as a man." I think the idea of Santa Claus IS the way that a lot of little kids see God. God/Santa is over there, far away, and I never see him. God/Santa sees everything I do, and will reward/punish me because of what I do. And that works for little kids. That's an actual physcological phase of growth that has been identified. The simpler the mind, the simpler the logic. Karma-- If I do bad things, I get punishe, but if I'm good, I get a reward. It's called something like "Lollipop Logic," candy as a reward type thinking. The point is, I think Santa is a wonderful idea, a great tradition. But it's a phase that your kids go through. They grow out of it. Santa is one level thinking. God is multi level. When you think Santa, you think, "good/bad, present/no present." But with God, it's "good/bad, heaven/hell....." And as you grow up a little more, it's "good/bad, heaven/hell, forgivness....." And a little more, "being activly good/being neutral/being kinda bad/evil, heaven/purgatory/hell, forgivness, choice, questioning..." Do you see where I'm going? You're years where Santa is important, you think like a child, you're a todler to maybe 8, or 10, and even that's a little old for Santa. But God is something, someone, a notion, that can stay with you you're whole life. God is someone who will reward you EVERYDAY of your life, not just on Christmas. God will give you better presents than a new bike or a Barbie. God gives ME strength, belief, the willingness to go on, to get up every morning, national tragedy or no, an live my life, helping people along the way, comforting others, doing what is good. "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
I Need An Old Priest And A Young Priest | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 1:32 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | A Personal Reflection Just came back from Church with a close friend of mine. I could not believe the amount of people that showed up. The only way to illustrate the amount is to say, the Body of Christ took over 20 minutes with 4 people handing it out. Two disturbing things that really affected me; the Father crying while giving out the Body of Christ and a six year old with a shirt with a US Flag receiving the Body of Christ. It’s a sad day when a six year old who should be outside playing is in church praying.  opieanthony.com; Like a retarded yoyo, you will keep coming back. | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 1:39 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | I got home early from work Tuesday because they closed the mall, so my mom and I went to chruch just to sit and pray. Maybe even try and get away from the images on TV. There was ONE other man there... I know it was early in the day, I know it was in the middle of a day where people were probably at home WATCHING this mess... But it was just really sad to me that no one else was there.... *sigh* I dunno... I haven't been to a mass yet, but I can only imagine what it will be like Sunday night... "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
| o&aswallow | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 1:59 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Many people are debating if this war on the horizon will be a religious war. Will this be armageddon? If you do or do not believe in a god, I fear that the next several months will help many come to terms with their struggle of that belief. I am a christian, but not fanatacal. But I would suggest if you are questioning the existance of a god over these events, you might be heading down the wrong path. I offer that if you question whether or not if their is a god, there should be no doubt in your mind that satan is strong after what you just witnessed.  Before you meet Alah, be prepared to meet some good old American whoop ass. Pennsylvania resident, but original NYC listener. | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 2:11 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: Absolutely not. I grew out of God just as I grew out of Santa Claus - as George Carlin says, "I was a Catholic - until I reached the age of reason." And your faith *IS* blind, but accepting that fact might make you question your faith, so you deny it. You may say that you've felt his presence or witnessed his acts or just known he was helping you.... all of this shit is how YOU have perceived events in your past. And you only perceived them that way BECAUSE you believe in God. The same events and feelings may happen to a person that does not believe, and it would have just been another day in the park. Until God pokes his head out of the clouds and says hi, your faith is BLIND. You cannot see God. He is not tangible. You can't go shake his hand. You can only feel his presence - which is in YOUR head.  | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 2:31 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | FTL, WHY are you so MAD at ME??? Why is it that my sitting here, asking only that people not go out of their way to blame God and deminish the hope of other board members is OFFENDING and ANGERING you? If you don't want to hear my opinion, step out. If you don't belive in God, FINE! I NEVER said you would go to hell, never insinuated that you were LESS than anyone else. WHAT is it that could cause so much ANGER in you towards me, or anyone else who believes in God? And it is completely out of line for you to say that my faith is blind. How DARE you? How dare you tell me what is in my head? You've never even MET me. I have no idea what you are thinking, your perceptions. I could never say that, because you disagree with me, God has never worked in your life, and I could never make any OTHER assumptions about you or your reason, your thoughts. quote: People who make my points for me... That's exactly what I've always said. I see God in my life because I've lived with the acceptance that God COULD work in my life and around me. Someone who shuts the possibility of God out will never consider God, and therefore, may never see God. *Sigh* Providing that I don't fuck up so badly that I wind up in Hell, I will see God when I die. I believe that. But, as I live, I see Him in differnt ways. That means, I see Him working through people, see him working through me, I see people who put their faith in God doing good things. I don't have to meet THE GOD face to face on the street one day just to believe in Him. You don't HAVE to believe me. You don't. That's your CHOICE. No one here ever said you HAD to belive ANYTHING! You can sit there all day, live your life, being a pretty good person ith natural human flaws and natural human wants, you can be a good American, a good family person, a good friend, and go to heaven and NEVER BELIEVE THAT THERE'S A GOD. That's not nesecarily how the Catholic Chuch feels, but that's what I think. I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. I only have the answers to most of the things that occur in my life, and those answers only satisfy ME (most of the time...) I didn't come here to PROVE anything, FTL, only to ask for a little respect when it comes to asking for prayers for loved ones, for a little courtesy and recognition of others who don't want to blame God, who want to be rational and BLAME THE MEN WHO DID THIS. I never said you SHOULDN'T say "Fuck God!" You want to, that's your right, especially here. But There's no reason to take away the last bits of hope that NewYorkers, survivors, family, friends, concerned people, have left. "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
| Arpikarhu Harmless Teddy I wish Maynard was still posting here so I could implant my head up his ass. Needle dick, bear salesman. I think I'm a revolutionary. Actually, I'm a one trick pony. I enjoy C&BT | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 2:47 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | you have to remember this is all because of peoples god beliefs. they didnt attack us because they hate us. they attacked us because they hate jews, and we support israel.if people hadnt invented god to help explain all the mysteries of life that ancient civs couldnt figure out, then none of this would be happening. the creation of god by man is responsible for most of the war and death and suffering in this world. if you want to pray because you need the crutch, go ahead, but keep your god off me. Arpi Karhu Kauppias Forever!!! AIM- Arpikarhu  | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 2:51 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Jeff, Yes, this debate IS pointless because you are not changing anyones mind about religion and we are not going to change your mind. So what is the point of debating something without resolution? You think the other reasons people kill other people are not worth debating? You say that because you think religion is "silly" and dangerous. Not being a religious person, its easy to just point at all the harm it does and denouce it as "useless" and a "disease". To say that religious people are just mindless followers and that we dont examine our faith and we need YOU to point out the contradictions in it and we need others to tell us, in essense, were fools for believing what we do. THAT is not productive. Comparing God to Santa Claus is NOT productive. If you want to believe life is a cosmic accident and when you die the parties over, that's fine. I dont. I guess Im just "mindless" and "silly". I guess I should start writing my Christmas list to give to Santa. | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 2:58 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | quote: I started this thread, but you came here, and you read what'd been said, and you've stayed, and you've given your opinion. I didn't make you come here, didn't make you listen to me. I don't stand on soap boxes in the town square and preach. You came here. You read. You replied. I didn't force my God on you. Those men who did this for "allah," THEY forced their god on people. I just called for respect for what you KNOW exists, the people of this board, not for something you don't believe in, God. "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 2:59 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Mad at you? Never. I just think you should be prepared for the most terrible consequence, in your mind.... the scenario that perhaps God does not exist. I think you should be prepared for the possibility that when you die, you won't be by anyone's side.... you won't be in a wonderful place NOR will you be in a horrible place.... you will simply cease to exist, and your body will be put in a box and buried just like everyone else. Personally, I'm prepared for both. Sure it may be a scary proposition, but there may just be NOTHING when you die. Make yourself feel better with talk of heaven.... I'd rather be a realist. Obviously I've gotten to you, I've upset you.... and from having enough religious debates, I know that the extremely devout get that way when they've finally been instilled with, however small, a bit of doubt. I'm not angry at you... never was..... actually I love having these debates. Stuff you say makes me think and hopefully stuff I say makes you think as well... and in the end we BOTH have a better understanding of BOTH sides of the argument. And that little bit of doubt that may be inside you will only make you believe what you believe much more strongly, because you will figure out why not to doubt yourself. No hatred here.... just a good debate. I guess with that, I'm done. | ||||
| Arpikarhu Harmless Teddy I wish Maynard was still posting here so I could implant my head up his ass. Needle dick, bear salesman. I think I'm a revolutionary. Actually, I'm a one trick pony. I enjoy C&BT | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 3:03 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | katya, i didnt mean you specifically. sorry if it came across that way. i meant mankind in general. Arpi Karhu Kauppias Forever!!! AIM- Arpikarhu | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 3:09 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | *nods* I know. I just.... I'll never force anyone to believe anything that they JUST DON'T. My boyfriend was raised somewhat Catholic, but really doesn't belive in God. This is the man that I am most very likely going to marry some day and spend the rest of my life. Our children will be raised by a Catholic, and a not-so-Catholic. My children. My KIDS. But still, I can't bring myself to push my religion on my future husband, the future dad of my kiddies. I just can't. It's not fair. Forcing religion on anyone for any reason is wrong; it creates resentment. On the idea of parents making their kids go to church.... Is it any more "forcing" than making them go to the doctor for a physical checkup? The way I see it, church is a spiritual checkup. If you choose to not follow God later in life, so be it. But there's nothing wrong with finding strength in God in your life. My main point, always. Even if God does not exist, what is WRONG with me, sitting in my room at night, praying to a God *I* belive exists, asking for stength and hope. Even if all I'm doing is psyching myself into something, even if I'm just pep talking myself, what's wrong with THAT? It's wrong to use God to make money for yourself, to be selfish, to use God to take lives. But what's wrong with me using the idea of God to HELP myself, help others, be a nicer person, be a more considerate person? "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 3:18 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | quote: FTL, that's the thing, tho', it's not that YOU have put doubt in me-- It's that I already HAVE doubts in me. You know, I really COULD be wrong! But I don't believe I am. It's not because my idea makes me happy, it's because my idea make SENSE to me. I'm not upset because you've made me doubt myself-- I do that everyday- I have HORRIBLE self-confidence! :) But any doubt about my religion, my spirituality, or my God comes from questions I ask myself. I'm not offended by your words- anyone's words. I get offended when people think they know why I believe in God, and why I think the way I do. I think that's presumptuous, that's all. I never take anything said on this board TOO TOO TOOOOOO personally. If we were having this discussion in person, it would be SOOOO different. Again, thank you to anyone who comes here who has the guts to say what they feel and stand up for it, even if others disagree. "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
| IrishAlkey Chucky Official OA.com Homo CUNT ROCKETTE Look who's laughing now, fuckers!!! Is It In Yet? JYD-4-LIFE [Sarcasm]Subzero316 fan since day one!!1!![/Sarcasm] "my mod powers are on temporary hiatus" This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 3:20 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Aug. 01 | quote: Nothing.  | ||||
| av8er OA.com's taint with wings. | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 3:32 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: So much for that.  av8er USA | ||||
| NewYorkDragons80 | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 4:10 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | quote: Well, if you want to play that game, how many atrocities have been committed in the name of atheism? The point is anything is unhealthy if taken in large doses. With all our "Science" we can't cure athlete's foot or fully understand the ocean. And many scientists say there is no denying the existence of a God because of the placement of Earth in relation to the sun and the resources we have as a planet. quote: Well, since money is such a big issue with you, I've never heard the issue of billing after confessing my sins. quote: Wait until you are laying on your death bed. Then it will waiver. There are no atheists in foxholes.... | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 4:41 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Any good debate rarely ends in a resolution. These are issues for the ages...abortion, capitol punishment, religion...as long as exist as free thinkers, there will be contrasting viewpoints on everything. The function and benefit of debate is to provide an open forum for the exchange of ideas in the hopes of accepting and understand and ultimately respecting opposing viewpoints even if you don't agree with them. quote: No, I don't. I am saying they are not relevant to this discussion. It's a just a different subject for debate. quote: Don't quote me sir unless I've said that. I do not think religion is silly. In fact, using silly and dangerous in the same sentence would be contradictory, and I rarely contradict myself. I do think it is dangerous, in respect to those who abuse it to further thier own personal agends in the name of God, an ideal so pure and relevant to the masses it brings an almost instant credibility to whatever any two-bit hack evangelist or merchandiser is trying to sell. Case in point, Jerry Falwell's recent diatribe on feminists and homosexuals causing the WTC bombing. quote: You think it's easy being atheist? Wake up? I am a SMALL minority in this country...all alone with only myself to call upon for support, love and faith. It's not an easy life. I wish I could turn to an ideal like God, but I can't. It's just not in me to trust in someone I can't physically shake hands with. quote: Who says it has to be productive? How do you define productive? You mean is it counter-productive to the longevity of religion? I am just expressing a viewpoint. People will hear whatever they want to hear. I don't expect to change anything...but if it opens the eyes of ONE person, that...in my opinion, is productivity. quote: I don't recall doing this either, but I can see where one can draw the parallel. Santa Claus brings happiness and goodwill to people when they are good, and punishes them when they are bad. He has a staff of angelic little elves helping him do his good work. His myth is known the world over, he performs miracles every year, he's worshipped by children the world over (who by the way leave food offerings and sing songs about him) and he's never been seen, photographed or communicated with in the history of mankind. Sounds very similiar to me. quote: Maybe you should. Don't be suprised if the Oreos you leave by the fireplace are still there the next morning. If memory serves mine were still there every year...but maybe I just wasn't a good enough boy. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat   | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 5:04 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Are we confusing atheism with science? If you can find one incident where the perpitrator claimed "I am doing this for all those who don't believe in God" I will be very impressed. Atheism and science ARE NOT the same thing. Most scientists claim they are atheists, but if you are going to blaim animal experimentation, genetic manipulation, etc. on atheism, you have no clue what it means to NOT believe in any religion. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 5:10 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Should've included this in my last post, but I hate to edit... What does that have to do with the arguement at hand? You HAVE to make money in this day and age. It's an unfortunate truth, and I don't look down on shrinks charing for thier services for a SECOND. They train for YEARS and spend thousands upon thousands on schooling...not to mention the time they invest. They are professionals doing GOOD work, and should be compensated. By the way, if you don't think the church makes a living off the people, think again. It has to pay the bills somehow..not to mention the hundreds of priests of pocket that cash to put to thier "own good uses". Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| Clint Horrace | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 5:41 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jun. 01 | Wow, some very interesting and thought provoking posts have been made, so i will lighten this up with a story. My friend was cleaning the carpets in his house and had the couch stood on end. His 5 year old son was playing and somehow his foot got caught and the couch fell on top of him. My friend rushed over and picked the couch up off of him expecting the worse. Miraculously the 200-some pound couch did no damage and the boy was fine except for a small bruise on his ankle. Later on, my friends wife told the boy he should thank god for helping him and that he was allright. He said "why mom, god didn't take the couch off me, dad did!" Sometimes even kids have an interesting and honest approach to this debate. I am the C.L.I.T. Commander! | ||||
This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm I Mod VG's ass! | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 5:44 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote:LMAO...thanks... i needed that.... quote:Ya think???.... Jeff...I love you man, but please... but for someone who doesn't beieve in something, you seem to be putting up some kind of fight against it...  | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 5:47 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Believing in nothing is still believing in something. Lol. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| IrishAlkey Chucky Official OA.com Homo CUNT ROCKETTE Look who's laughing now, fuckers!!! Is It In Yet? JYD-4-LIFE [Sarcasm]Subzero316 fan since day one!!1!![/Sarcasm] "my mod powers are on temporary hiatus" This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 5:51 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Aug. 01 | quote: Thanks, Jeff, for giving me something to ponder. I'm already getting a headache. | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 12:14 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Jeff, The problem is, your not going to convince ANYONE of ANYTHING in regards to relgion. My comments were based on all the comments made in this thread, not just yours, so I wasnt just specifically responding to you. Religion has nothing to do with reality? Not yours, but millions of others. Its a fairy tale told to keep the masses in line? A nice myth that helps people deal with life? Sure, maybe. Im fairly sure you've never been to Pluto, but you believe its there because you've seen pictures or been told its there. You cant see it, but its there sure enough. People accept things as fact all the time that they have no way of knowing whether its "real" or not. Its called faith. Everyone has faith that tommorrow the sun will rise because it does every day. But you have no way of KNOWING the sun is going to rise tommorrow. Sure, scientists tell you itll be around a good long time, but scientists throughout history have been COMPLETELY wrong about all sorts of stuff. You accept the sun rising as a given. I accept God as a given, just like you know Neptune and Pluto are there even though youll never see them with your own eyes. | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 1:10 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: It is physically possible to see a real picture of Neptune and Pluto. We have the technology that if a person could carry enough food for the many years of travel, one COULD travel there and see them with one's own eyes. It's a real place. You can go there. The day you can take a picture of God, or go to him and shake his hand, you let me know. Until then, your argument is not even realistic. | ||||
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Displaying 51-75 of 101 messages in this thread. |