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| Posted By | Discussion Topic: The Rock has returned | ||||
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| Turk408 | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:03 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01  | Well surprise surprise surprise. Anyone see this one coming??? Nice to see him back. Let me light your fire I love the kindredbabe, the MamaCaz, the SyKoPaThCHiK, and especially the RF and my little walking Disaster Area!!!! | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:23 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | The Rock's promo tonite was great. Very appropriate. As I have said before, Austin not only spit in Vince's face by walking, but in the face of every guy in that company who has endured countless gimmicks/fueds they hated yet stuck it out because it was good for the company. BTW: how symbolic was the Rock throwing the beer at Vince? This message was edited by krahzee on 6-17-02 @ 11:27 PM | ||||
| -GomeZ- | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:31 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 02 | Yeah, Rock endured some real hardships to get to the top of the wwf... I don't know why people are happy about this, nothing has changed, you'll still hear the same boring lines 20 times a night, you'll still see the boring matches, wait a week and see if you are still as jubilant  "Not only is life a bitch, it has puppies." | ||||
| Turk408 | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:36 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 01 | Loved the "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!!!" Classic Rock..made my heart swell. Let me light your fire I love the kindredbabe, the MamaCaz, the SyKoPaThCHiK, and especially the RF and my little walking Disaster Area!!!! | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:51 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | I don't know why people tool on the Rock all the time. True the guy didn't have to wait or work as long as some others did to get to the top of the WWF, but he didn't stay there by accident. Love him or hate him, the guy is very marketable. He gets over. That is what counts at the end of the day. You can talk all you want about this guy or that guy being technically gifted, but if the fans don't buy it it doesn't mean shit. That was the problem with Jericho as champion. He may be gifted as a wrestler, but the fans were not ready to buy him as Champion. Did the way they booked him suck? Yes. Still the guy was not over with the fans, and did not get the reaction (heat) that the WWF wanted so he lost the belt to HHH. The same applies to all of these Japanese and Mexican wrestlers that Sir O and others are always talking about. I am sure that they are gifted, but for a large contingency of them to be successful in the US they would have to learn how to cut promos in English or have style that is so totally breathtaking that fans will want to watch it. Face it, the average fan will put up with a guy like Tajiri (who does not speak English on camera)once or twice a show at most. The Rock got to were he is today in such a short time because he can cut a promo that most fans love and back it up with decent ring work. It's not about the internet smarts, it's about the average viewers at home who turn on thier TV once or twice a week to be entertained. If it was about the guys who go onto websites like prowrestling.com everyday, you would see nothing but Beniot, Eddie, Jericho, ect... wrestling for the title. | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:51 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | shit! double post This message was edited by krahzee on 6-17-02 @ 11:59 PM | ||||
| Precious Fatman | posted on 06-17-2002 @ 11:54 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | "You have 15 seconds to get out of the ring." You know what, this was a great surprise and a hell of an ending to a pretty good show. Rock gained alot of people's respect tonight. He also surprised a hell of a lot of people. I honestly didn't see it coming. I just thought it was going to be some kind of bullshit, but The Rock was the last thing on my mind, especially on Raw. If things go back to normal after this week, fine, but let people enjoy tonight's show. ---Blake a.k.a. Fatman, Big Show  | ||||
| pnigga well...I feel like an ass now "wading in the genetic pool of vomit" | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 5:31 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 02 | Krahzee hit the nail on the head. The Rock is where he is because the guy is dynamite on camera. For all the years I've been watching wrestling, he's the only guy who could even rival Hogan and Flair's ability in their primes to talk up a match - in fact he's probably even better than Hogan was back in the day. He cuts incredible promos and generates a tremendous response whenever the guy opens his mouth. love him or hate him, he's the best the WWE has in that department and that's ultimately what will put him ahead of the rest of the crowd. The Undertaker's been kicking around the WWE for quite a long time and even holds the belt now. Listening to him is about as thrilling as passing a gall stone. The bottom line is that The Rock came out and did the right thing and provided some life to an otherwise abysmal Raw. --------------------------------------------------  | ||||
| pnigga well...I feel like an ass now "wading in the genetic pool of vomit" | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 5:35 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 02 | one thing I'll say in defense of Jericho's title run, the WWE really dicked him over in terms of getting some legit heat. The fucking guy never got a clean win in a title defense. He won every match by DQ or as the result of outside interference. Seeing the world champ finish every match flat on his back doesn't do much to curry fan interest. If you want to push a champion properly, you can't have him winning steel cage matches because Stephanie McMahon distracted the ref. -------------------------------------------------- | ||||
| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 5:49 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | It was great having the Rock back. I really don't give a shit if you hate him back. Rock is entertaining and has/had a very promising action movie career and he came back to the WWE ahead of schedule because Austin screwed the company and he loves the business. The line of the night was when he used the new marketing promotion and said if you don't want to be here than get the F out. That was an awesome promo last night and the crowd looked juiced he was back.  This message was edited by TeenWeek on 6-18-02 @ 7:27 AM | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 8:53 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: I totally agree. The booking did not help hin at all. But because of the bad booking, fans were unwilling to acept him as champion and he got no heat. They became disinterested in the story behind him getting and retaining the belt because WWF presented it shitty. | ||||
| Tussle King I swear it was this big | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 9:23 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 02 | The Rock can cut a promo like nobody else. He may really be the best man on the mike I have ever seen. Anyone remember the one he cut in the ring when he as feuding with Benoit? "Chris Benoit, you can go lick a wolverine's anus....Well, go ahead jabroni, go lick the anus!" Or his famous promo on Billy Gunn, after Gunn won the King Of The Ring? The guy is electric. People mark out for him in a big way. And it is good to see him back. | ||||
| PlasticMan G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Dhalsim-Style Hand to Hand Specialist | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 10:55 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | The Rock is the only reason I kept the dial on the WWF the last few years, rather than surfing past it like I always did. That "It doesn't matter what you think!" bit is the best goddamned line I have ever heard. Ever. Well, at least the way he does it. It kinda looks stupid sitting there in type...  It wasn't lies, it was just...bullshit. | ||||
| Ferret | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 11:02 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | Give credit to Vince for making a bad situation into something great. When Eddie came out to Stone Cold's music, I almost shit myself. The whole timing was dead on with the Rock. They tease it, "who could it be", and bam, the music hits immediately. Personally, I liked the line about the people's denchers and walker more than "Get the F Out", but it did work the way he said it, and it sent the message to everyone backstage.quote: Couldn't agree with you more. Jericho was my favorite until he won the title and was turned into a pussy, kind of like a poor man's Kurt Angle. Hopefully they'll realize how great he was as a face and change him back.  | ||||
| SpaceGhost Whiny fucking bitch - just follow the sig guidelines like EVERYONE ELSE. | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 12:06 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 02 | i was thinking Rock when Vince said The man is coming, but i couldnt really see how they could use him, what with only 1 show left till KOTR. i was expecting it to be Shane McMahon or Scott Stiener, Shane i could see coming to throw in a kink in Vinces plans and we could go through that storyline again and Stiener just coming out and making his 'presence' felt. only part i liked bout the Rocks segment was the "15 seconds..." and the look on Vinces face. I just dont really see any part Rock can take in KOTR cept possibly involving himself with the Undisputed belt(ugh) right now its looks like im only gonna watch the actually KOTR matches then turn the channel | ||||
| TeenWeek what's a status? | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 12:37 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | I heard Rock will present the King of the Rin title to the winner and as a possible spoiler he did something with Heyman and Brock Lesnar after Raw went off the air. | ||||
| armymad DUMBEST POSTER EVER!!! | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 1:24 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | you got to give up for vince , when thing look like they are going thought the shit box they find a way to begin you back into it, Ready to go to war for the show This message was edited by armymad on 6-18-02 @ 2:14 PM | ||||
| SpaceGhost Whiny fucking bitch - just follow the sig guidelines like EVERYONE ELSE. | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 2:01 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 02 | quote: yeah! wait...what? | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 6:33 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: My guess is Benoit gets involved in Eddie's match with Flair and Rock comes out to help Flair. Now that SCSA is gone, the WWE needs another babyface on RAW. Don't be surprised to see the Rock moved there. Also, the Rock is shooting another movie in September, so putting the title on him would be pointless. Think about it. He can't compete for it at KOTR, so he would have to wait for the next PPV, which would mean at the most a two month title reign. This message was edited by krahzee on 6-18-02 @ 6:38 PM | ||||
| Se7en | posted on 06-18-2002 @ 9:52 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 01 | In the past I've said some very harsh things about the Rock....and to an extent, I still believe that he represents just about everything wrong with the business (all style, no substance). But recently, I've gone a bit of a 180 on Rocky. I've come to realize certain things about him. The Rock sells for other wrestlers.....unlike HHH. The Rock actually jobs and puts over other wrestlers.....unlike HHH (Jericho, comment?). The Rock generally tries to keep himself out of political backstabbing......unlike HHH. The Rock generally doesn't abuse his power in the company......unlike HHH. Basically, the Rock sure does seem, from all accounts, to be a genuinely nice person......unlike HHH. The Rock is the antithesis of Hunter. He's the anti-HHH. And that makes him good enough in my book. That was the problem with Jericho as champion. He may be gifted as a wrestler, but the fans were not ready to buy him as Champion. Did the way they booked him suck? Yes. Still the guy was not over with the fans, and did not get the reaction (heat) that the WWF wanted so he lost the belt to HHH. I will argue until I'm blue in the face that it just WASN'T JERICHO'S FAULT. One may not like Jericho, but I don't think it's unfair to say that he's a guy who has had the deck stacked against him. The same applies to all of these Japanese and Mexican wrestlers that Sir O and others are always talking about. I am sure that they are gifted, but for a large contingency of them to be successful in the US they would have to learn how to cut promos in English or have style that is so totally breathtaking that fans will want to watch it. Face it, the average fan will put up with a guy like Tajiri (who does not speak English on camera)once or twice a show at most. This is sad, but true. I think Sir O would agree to that in some respects. It's frustrating, because some of the greatest wrestlers in the WORLD exist outside of the U.S. and Canada....and most people dismiss them simply because they're foreign. Of course, to be fair, the same can sometimes happen in Japan. Gaijin workers aren't as popular as much as the native draws, although the Japanese are more respectful of ability than we are here. Which is why guys like Benoit and Guerrero are respected overseas.  "Being a bastard WORKS." --Spider Jerusalem | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-19-2002 @ 12:01 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: quote: Of course not all the blame lies with Jericho, or even most of it. If he is to blame at all, it is the fact that he got so over with fans as his smart-ass face persona, that for most, they hated to boo the guy. The booking of that whole fued was done wrong. If anyone was teaming with Stephanie vs. HHH it should have been Angle. It would have made perfect sense to pick that fued up where it left off. Think about it. HHH is out with an injury and comes back to find his wife buddy buddy with the guy he fought over her for. That evolves into an angle where Kurt is revealed to be having an affair with Stephanie behind HHH's back. They explain away what happened that night Stephanie supposedly was in th hospital with Shane. ( I know, I remeber way too much of this shit!!) Something along those lines would have worked. Not putting Jericho with a woman he despised a few months earlier for no other reason than to fuck with HHH. As soon as I saw they were going to do that, I knew that angle was going to suck. | ||||
| Crimson Mask | posted on 06-19-2002 @ 2:52 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 02 | OK the the Rock promo was a great way for the wwE to save face with the fans. When ever a fed looses a major player, they need to find some sort of damage-control to show the fans that the show will go on to better things. This is where WcW failed, after losing Benoit (the then world champion) and the rest of the Radicalz WCW went apeshit and threw away their current storylines in a scramble to find replacements for the departed talent, wich showed everyone watching thier weakness. It may have been wrong to bash Stone Cold (a guy who kept this rickidy old ship afloat for the past five years), but it does get the point over to the fans that the WWE is going to move on and the Rock did a good job of that with his speech. It is fucking funny that the guy who supposedly cares so mutch about the company just got back from a long leave of absance and is going to be leaving again to do more movies, yeah really gives a shit. Ok on the thoughts on Rocky: quote: I think you have been hypnotized by his shiny glasses or by that evil eyebrow. Don't worry its temporary, just watch his next match and it should go away pretty quick since his ring idiocy starts with his just awful brawling skills... quote: With being brought up so close to wrestling buisness you'd think he'd understand ring psycology and how to sell. But he fucking does'nt. He doesn't even try to sell unless he's in the ring with someone who is politically strong (Taker, Hunter, even fucking Vince) and he only sells when he's setting up a move of his own. To the Rock he wants his counter attack (like his samoan drop out of nowhere) to look inportant so he'll look like he's taking a beating (witch most of the time he only sells with his face), other than this he is usually lazy when it comes to selling. quote: No the Rock never jobs anyone who is'nt an established Vet in the WWf (cept for Jericho and Benoit i'll give him that), yeah he'll lose but only after a major interference. Oh i do blame Hunter for Jericho's title failure, if Jericho was alloud a lttle offense in their matches it would not have been a failure. Jericho was getting over as a heel by the way the WWe was pushing Hunter so hard that you could'nt see mutch passed that. quote: We don't know that. With all the pushes this guy has gotten along the way, he must have been doing something to keep in good graces with the backstage clan. Or he was Pat Patterson's "special friend". This message was edited by Crimson Mask on 6-20-02 @ 5:00 PM | ||||
| krahzee | posted on 06-19-2002 @ 9:47 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: True, He's no Beniot, but he's not terrible either. He does not blow spots all that much. Does he have a limited offense at times? Yes. But it is because the fans want to see him perform certain move night in and night out. They actually did an interview with him where he talked about the fact that he kept it fairly simple because there were certain moves of his the fans popped for. Those were the ones he wanted to preform every night to give the fans what they came to see. You ever stop to listen to the crowd pop during his "awful brawling"? They go nuts when he spits on his fist before that last punch. Why change it? The bottom line is that the WWE is not out to please the smarts on the internet. They go after the average fans at home. The guys who tune in every Monday and Thursday to watch thier product. Those people want solid wrestling ( not necessarily spectacular) and great, funny, well written story lines to go along with it. The latter is what the Rock is there for. It's what got him over in the first place, and what will keep him over until he retires. quote: I never thought of this as a problem. The whole thing about a guy winning the title for the first time, or even becoming a main eventer for the first time is that they did something few have done. They beat one of the top guys in the biz. Why destroy that by having your big names job to guys who are not ready? It takes away from thier heat. BTW: Anyone who disagrees with this last point needs to just look back in the WWF's history and realize that main eventers job more often now than they ever did. In the early eighties/ pre Raw days, main eventers basically fought jobbers on TV every week. They rarely fought anyone good. At least now you get a card of name talent guys vs. name talent guys when you tune in or go to a house show. I went to a house show in the eighties that was all jobbers vs. established guys and headlined by ONE big name matchup (Bossman vs. Savage I think) Back when Hogan was with WWF during the 80's he NEVER lost. He jobbed less times in his whole first tenure with WWF than a guy like HHH, or the Rock does in a year. But you know what? How much more special did it make the Warrior beating him at Wrestlemania? The Warrior had done something that few ever had done. He cleanly beat Hogan. | ||||
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