CDIH

OK, this is really long. Sorry, but there's so much to say on it. Just read it through because I'm really interested to hear your opinions and viewpoints on it.


Two sections here.


So you’re starting a band. You’ve been practicing those guitar licks until they were perfect. Worked on your chops for countless hours. You’re now a guitar god. So, you find some other people and start jamming. Now what? Where do you go from here?
What kind of music do you play? A lot of bands start out doing covers (ok, most bands), so what kind of music do you play? Do you play catchy radio hits that all the frat boys and girls want to hear? Do you play that obscure stuff that you’re really into but no one else has heard? Do you compromise between the two? Is it possible to book gigs when all you play is noise core? It’s probably REALLY tough. You’re going to see a lot of VFW halls in your future. So you opt for the catchy tunes route. At what point do you just get sick of it and play what you want? When you do, do you lose all your bookings because of it?
Personally, I’ve done a bit of playing in my day. We’ve done the play other peoples tunes to jam. We’ve also played some really out there shit. If I’m going to invest the amount of time it takes to practice, then deal with organizing a group, and the countless hours of rehearsal, I’m gonna play what I want. I’m not going to play Creed because I think that the kids at the bar will like it. What the hell do they know, they think DMB was the greatest band ever. Now don’t get me wrong, we will play some more commercially friendly music, by bigger known bands. But it’s going to be stuff we enjoy playing. You won’t hear us playing Creed, Incubus, Limp Bizkit, etc. Why on earth would I want to do something I LOVE (playing music), but not doing it the way I want? I don’t like that music, I don’t like their attitudes, and I don’t like the fans. My attitude in music, and in life, is I’m going to do what I want, and if you like it, GREAT, if not, sorry but I’m going to do it anyway. This is pretty much the basis of what Punk music was. Not that I consider myself punk because I don’t like a lot of punk music, but its all about the attitude.

Second part. The music you listen to.
How much of the music you listen to is because you really like it, and how much is because you turn on the radio and hear it everyday? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten shit for loving Radiohead. On this board, and in real life. Not many of my friends are into them, and I know many of you think they’re overrated. I think they’re talented musicians who have taken a few different turns in their career and many people don’t flow with it. Two of my other favorite bands are The Melvins, and Ween. Ween has gotten a bit of notoriety in the past few years, but still remain pretty much underground. Yeah, most of their stuff is hard to listen to, but I love the creativity, and I really dig their songs. Sure, almost all of their lyrics are really out there, and more comedic than anything else, but I love it. Take The Melvins. They are everything I love about music, and the “punk rock attitude”. They started in the mid-80’s right along side all the other Seattle bands. In fact, almost every one of those bands credit The Melvins to being the originators of Grunge. A lot of the other bands made it really big while the Melvins didn’t. Why? They decided to move out of Washington to California. They wanted no part of what was going on there. Their music changes constantly, and they will do things JUST to piss people off. Like play entire concerts where all it is is noise. They went from being one of that fastest bands, to one of the slowest bands over night. If really flipped people out. Just more of the stuff that I love.

Sure, I’ll listen to bunch of stuff thats “commercial”, but a lot of it really doesn’t groove with me. I listen to stuff that I find appealing to ME. Not to record companies, or to the guy next door.

I feel the same way about my music as you...
I did some playing out when I was a kid, and we did a mix of covers and originals...
Had a blast...
But, I take exception to you grouping Incubus with those "other" bands...
Those kids, IMO, are some of the most talented musician/songwriters to hit the commercial scene in years.

The reason I grouped them in there Sluggo is not because I don't think they're talented. I just don't like them, and I think that they are another band that gets pushed down everyones throats.

There are 4 people in our band. Rarely will you get 4 people to agree on everything. Certain people in the band are very adament about playing songs that work in the bars we play in and that audiences come to hear. Others, like myself have a different taste in music and want to play lesser known tunes. We compromise and play both. I think its great, people have actually commended us on the fact that our list is somewhat eclectic in terms of what other local bar bands are playing. Granted, we are not playing Velvet Underground or Dream Theater but we throw in songs that other bands in our genre don't play.

I am really two people musically. I actually like alot of the stuff Incubus (especially their earlier stuff), RHCP, Stone Temple Pilots, Rage, and others play as mainstream as they are and I also like QOTSA, Jurrassic 5, Ween, 24/7 Spyz, N.E.R.D, and The Melvins.

When we are getting bookings regularly you can bet i'm gonna sneak in more of the latter tunes into our set lists more and more.

OK...I do...I guess we can't be friends anymore.

Quote:There are 4 people in our band. Rarely will you get 4 people to agree on everything.

Yes, thats always been a problem, BUT....you can always find another band. Stay in this one to play gigs for money, then sing in another to do the cool shit you want. Then you can always piggy back one band on the other's coattails and book them both at the same gigs. Even if you only do 1 set with the fun band, at least you're doing it.

I see no reason doing exactly what Keyser said he was doing. And if I had a band, or any musicall talent whatsoever, I'd probably do that.

It's fun to have morals, but when you have zero audience it's pretty tough. Play what's going to get people there. Once you have proven success, you get leway to play more of what you want.

If your driving force is just the love of music, you will continue to play more and more of what you want, and eventually develop some form of fanbase. It will take much longer than just playing the popular stuff, but everything that's worthwhile and difficult takes much longer than the easy road.

If your goal is just quick money, girls, and fame (to whatever extent you define that) you will continue to play what will be commercially popular

I agree Galt, and in no way am I trying to guide Keyser's musical career. I'm simply stating my beliefs. I think the fact that he's doing something that so many people dream of doing (being in a band) is fucking awesome. I think you should do what makes YOU happy. What I think doesn't matter to anyone but me.

However.....with some of the stuff you like Keyser.....maybe I'm a candidate for that second band......Although, if I ever get off my ass to start another band, it will have a female singer doing most of the vocals (ala Portishead) most likely. With a male singer to do some of the heaver Melvins-esque stuff.

don't worry. Wasn't saying you were Maynard. I was just saying that I'd probably do exaclty what he is doing.

You should play pop tunes with a heavy tilt. That always brings them in doors.

My suggestion: Underneath Your Clothes.

No, I know you weren't Galt, I just don't want him or anyone else to think that.

Quote:Then you can always piggy back one band on the other's coattails and book them both at the same gigs.

One time... I was really the only none memeber of either band watching the show. They each watched each other, all friends anyway, and then packed all their shit up. The bar was sorta fullish when they set up, but they all left in one big group.

hmmm.... I hold original songs higher than cover bands, but a really well done cover beats a crappy original (of course). Saw a band, Freak, in Hoboken... they did all popular songs as Hard Core covers, but they did them well. If they did originals, they would have been that much better.

It's hard to write your own stuff though. Becuase there is added pressure on top of working so hard to just build the fan base. I watched it. Due to internal conflict they broke up, but they were getting more people to show up, regulars too, getting booked regularly at places, moving to the back of the night and not always being openers, getting hooked up with similar bands to get new gigs, etc. Now they are just gone. Everyone can look back and say Yeah you guys were so good... But it's kinda like.... ahh all that work down the drain.


Forgot what I listen to... I'm musically lazy. I like to hear things first before I buy them. The radio is easy, becuase it is a mix of different people (all be it, the same general sounds) and it just spits them out for you. Plus I don't have a cd player or tape in my car, so it's really just radio. At work I can do cd's, but then a cd generally just lives in there for weeks on end, on repeat.



Edited By Hey Ladi on May 15 2002 at 2:38

Quote:hmmm.... I hold original songs higher than cover bands, but a really well done cover beats a crappy original (of course). Saw a band, Freak, in Hoboken... they did all popular songs as Hard Core covers, but they did them well. If they did originals, they would have been that much better.

The thing is, it is a lot easier to get the crowd involved if they know the songs. Then, they will remember that the band did good covers of songs they like, and support them more when they come out with original material. Whenever I go to shows, and the opening band(s) is virtually unknown, everyone just stands there while they play original material. However, if they mixed in some songs that people are fimiliar with, it gets people more excited and they will remember the band better. Being a cover band your whole life won't get you very far, but I think its a good idea to start with it to try and gain a fanbase.

Do you guys prefer to hear covers EXACTLY like the original? Or do you like when they totally change them?

I prefer one or the other. It's bands that try and do them like the original, and they don't sound like the original band that I can't stand. Don't just change one or two licks, make it really different, or make it perfect.

Just My opinion.

Speaking of covers, I heard the sweetest one at a bar about a month ago. The bar erupted. Half of them because they'd heard it before, and half of them because it is the funniest song in the history of the world.

The Song was Gangsta of Love by The Geto Boys. The band starting playing Sweet Home Alabama, which I thought was kind of gay, but then right after the first chorus, they went into Gangsta of Love. The place was silent for the first two lines, and then just erupted.

Quote:Now they are just gone. Everyone can look back and say Yeah you guys were so good... But it's kinda like.... ahh all that work down the drain.

Like the end of Spirit Caravan, unfortunately, it seems to come down making a choice whether you want to make money or art. Independent artists make no money, they can't quit their day job, their art won't support them alone. But they still have their music integrity, which to me is the most important thing. They're doing it all for the love of the music, and if they can make money at it then more power to them. Make whatever music makes you happy. If I like it, I'll listen to it.

hell, I'm traveling all the way to Ohio on Memorial Day weekend to a bar to just to check out bands play for 3 days, and there will be a full audience. (<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.emissionsfromthemonolith">http://www.emissionsfromthemonolith</a><!-- m --> )

I enjoy Indy musicians because they don't care what the average consumer will buy. Most people, if they don't hear it on the radio or tv, it doesn't exist. That's sad that they have to be force-fed their entertainment. The music industry just plain old sucks, all they look for are trends, which leads to generic copies of music that was originally pure. Look how they watered down Grunge became so quickly when labels signed bands who could sing like Eddie Veder. Granted, I still love bands like STP, Train, Days of the New, Alic in Chains, etc. but the numbers of good, quality original bands being released by major labels seems to be shrinking IMO.


i don't think I had a point to this entire post... oh well :lol:

Quote:i don't think I had a point to this entire post... oh well

This thread was more about your opinions, not having a point. So even in losing, you still win. :thumbs-up:

I'm actually working with another band simultaneously on harder edged original stuff. My cover band also has originals we will sneak into our sets.

I like pulling out things like that Geto Boys song. Throw in things that people don't expect.



Edited By Keyser Soze on May 15 2002 at 3:55

when it comes to finding new bands i do mostly go by radio or what i hear on less mainstream stations like wsou or what used to be the box (its not m2, which is good at times, but the box was better,even though it was mostly rap videos,,,but anyway).
when i first heard the strokes and the song last night i couldnt stand them, then i heard all the hype about them and immediatly hated them more. then i actually listened to the rest of their songs and now i really like them with last night probably being my least favorite song.
i guess what i'm trying to say is that for me sometimes hearing stuff on krock or mtv first taints it for me. it seems so pop. and when stuff gets such critical acclaim i immediatly assume its supposed to be all artsy, like radiohead. its probably wrong, but to me the source of the recommendation of a band means alot. if its someone who i know listens to mostly pop z100 stuff saying this band is really good, i just roll my eyes at it, but if someone else who i can reasonably believe have a decent reason for liking them and like what i like in someways i'll be more inclined to give them a listen. any recommendation from any media seams so unpure.

As a rule, I hate pop music, so my opinions are biased.

Anyway, I'm friends with a couple of guys in a fairly successful band. Not a band that's been on the MTV or the Z100, not even close, but they've seen some success, enough to get a major label deal.

They started out doing covers of somewhat popular hard rock songs, and doing them very well. As they progressed, they slowly moved away from the covers and played more original material. These days, their shows are 90% original, with a few covers to appease the long time fans who still long for the days of RATM and Nirvana tunes.

Conclusion: Cover songs people know, but cover them well. Nothing sucks worse than an awful version of "Fade To Black." Build an audience, then start working original songs into your setlist. If you're good, they'll keep coming. If you're very good, you'll get a deal. If you're not good, prepare to play "Freebird" in bars for the next 20 years...

Quote:Anyway, I'm friends with a couple of guys in a fairly successful band.

Who is it & can you get tickets? ;-)