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+--- Thread: Red Sox - Yankees - The Final Showdown (/showthread.php?tid=9473)
- GonzoStyle - 10-29-2004
You went and blindly said he was consistently last in po's and assits every year, which is not true and you now form your opinions on what other people say, get a clue.
- HedCold - 10-29-2004
his numbers jumped up this year compared to the last 5. this year hes over 4 but he had not done that since 98.
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- Galt - 10-29-2004
he's consistently last in putouts and assists PER 9 INNINGS. One small clarification. I didn't go blind, I went off one of the most respected statisticians at the sports leader.
I take his opinion with more weight than Tim McCarver
- The Jays - 10-29-2004
I think Jeter's range is limited to spectacular plays and easy plays. I think he is a great shortstop, because of his passion for the game, and unfortunatly his passion exceeds his ability in the field. Yes, he can throw and make some spectacular plays; he is very nimble and agile, and can make those nice leaping turning throws, and can make runs toward home, pick up a ball and chuck it real quick, and he is willing to go head first towards the stands so he can outrun that Red Sox foul ball. It's simple. There are plays that Jeter makes, and then there are plays which everyone else can make. He can field, but he's not the best at fielding.
- Galt - 10-29-2004
Galt Wrote:This series will be determined not by the offense or the starting pitchers, but by the Yankees bullpen. If Gordon and Quantrill are strong the Yanks win.I just reread this.
boom! Gordon was the goat of the series.
- The Jays - 10-30-2004
they don't allow people to own goats in New York
- crx girl - 10-30-2004
Quote:You love him because he's a) a Yankee and b) pretty.what's wrong with that?
actually switch em,
Edited By crx girl on 1099119323
- The Jays - 10-30-2004
Pretty people deserved to be loved because they are better than ugly people like us.
- crx girl - 10-30-2004
of course!
- Bloody Anus - 10-31-2004
Quote:Jeter's response to "Fielder's Choice"'s comment that he was the worst fielder in baseball (same source)
Quote
"I'm the worst?" Jeter said when confronted with the numbers. "I don't think I would say that. But I couldn't really care less what some mathematical equation comes out with." "How do you rank defensive shortstops?" Jeter said. "I don't see how a formula can evaluate how somebody plays." "You get a strikeout pitcher on the mound as opposed to a ground-ball pitcher, it's going to affect the statistics you use to evaluate defense. So I don't really think you can."
The book actually states that Jeter is a very good player and is probably on track to join the Hall of Fame some day. But that does not change the fact that when compared to his contemporaries, Derek is a poor fielder.
But it was not always that way. What has happened to Jeter over the past five seasons (1998 to 2002) is that his range factor (the number of balls he makes a play on) has gone dramatically downhill each year. And what about those "strikeout pitchers" that Derek refers to? It is true that if a shortstop gets fewer chances then it may look like he is getting to fewer balls. But, in Jeter's case, his team's strikeouts do not seem to be the problem.
In 1997 (before his decline), Derek Jeter led all shortstops in chances (assists plus putouts). His range compared to the other shortstops was a very good 39 points above the league average. That year the Yankee pitching staff struck out 1165 batters.
By 2002, Jeter's range had fallen to a disastrous 75 points below the league average - the worst in the major leagues. And the Yankee pitchers struck out 1135 batters - virtually the same as in 1997. So, it would appear that the number of strikeouts is not the answer to Derek Jeter's decline in range factor.
I completely agree with Jeter on the strikeout-groundout thing... except for the fact that they have had quite a few sinkerballers - Pettitte, Weaver, Cone, Rogers, Mendoza, Lieber, Brown, so it's not as if he's not had chances. The reason why Range Factor is such bullshit is because it doesn't take into account things that actually take place WITHIN the game that simply cannot be broken down mathematically. Say Jeter makes a diving stop to his right, throws to second to get a force out. He gets credited with an assist, right? But if he was positioned a step to his right to begin with, he doesn't need to dive, and they end up having time to turn a DP. Or say the 2B drops a perfectly good throw. Or on the other side of it, say he makes a diving stop with a runner on 3rd and prevents him from scoring. No out is recorded, but by just keeping the ball on the infield he prevented a run from scoring. Still a good play, though not statistically significant. Or say he makes a great play on a slow roller hit by Ichiro. Any other runner would be out, but with his speed he beats it out. No out is recorded, thus no assist, thus no stats. And finally there's the whole Jeremy Giambi play..
Quote:In 1997 (before his decline), Derek Jeter led all shortstops in chances (assists plus putouts). His range compared to the other shortstops was a very good 39 points above the league average. That year the Yankee pitching staff struck out 1165 batters.1997: Cone, Pettitte, Rogers, Mendoza, Mecir
By 2002, Jeter's range had fallen to a disastrous 75 points below the league average - the worst in the major leagues.
2002: Pettitte, Mendoza
point is:
-most stats are bullshit and usually completely meaningless
-Jeter is an above average defensive SS, period
- GonzoStyle - 10-31-2004
Bloody anus said it!!!
- HedCold - 10-31-2004
but one point of neyers argument is that whenever someone else played ss for the yankees they had a higher Range Factor. yea its hard to tell because of the small amount of games they play compared to jeter, but its still interesting.
- The Jays - 10-31-2004
The real question, would you like to have a Derek Jeter on your baseball team?
- Bloody Anus - 11-01-2004
The other question, how many times have you watched a Yankee game and thought Jeter was hurting the team with his crappy defense?
- Galt - 11-01-2004
because if a ball's right to him, he makes the play; he makes the easy plays look hard. And the plays he doesn't get, it looks like he almost got them.
The rub against Jeter is that he's pretty surehanded, but he just doesn't get to balls that other players get to. He doesn't bobble balls, he doesn't make bad throughs, he goes all out and that's great. But he's a step slower than the vast majority of all other shortstops in baseball.
- HollywoodJewMoses - 11-01-2004
i heard he was playing golf on saturday morning.
- GonzoStyle - 11-01-2004
I heard pedro got beaned at the parade.
- HollywoodJewMoses - 11-01-2004
and karim garcia was arrested shortly after.
- 2 tired 2 give N F - 11-01-2004
I haven't heard the word on it but did NOMA get a ring.
- HollywoodJewMoses - 11-01-2004
they dont hand out rings until the yankees come to boston on April 11th.