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- The Jays - 09-05-2005

According to a senior White House official, it seems it took ONE WEEK to process.

Quote:Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.



- The Jays - 09-05-2005

from AP


Quote:Newsview: Rhetoric Not Matching in Relief


Sep 2, 6:43 PM (ET)

By RON FOURNIER

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Iraqi insurgency is in its last throes. The economy is booming. Anybody who leaks a CIA agent's identity will be fired. Add another piece of White House rhetoric that doesn't match the public's view of reality: Help is on the way, Gulf Coast.

As New Orleans descended into anarchy, top Bush administration officials congratulated each other for jobs well done and spoke of water, food and troops pouring into the ravaged city. Television pictures told a different story.

"What it reminded me of the other day is 'Baghdad Bob' saying there are no Americans at the airport," said Rich Galen, a Republican consultant in Washington. He was referring to Saddam Hussein's reality-challenged minister of information who denied the existence of U.S. troops in the Iraqi capital.

To some critics, President Bush seemed to deny the existence of problems with hurricane relief this week. He waited until Friday to acknowledged that "the results are not acceptable," and even then the president parsed his words

Republicans worry that he looks out of touch defending the chaotic emergency response.

"It's impossible to defend something like this happening in America," said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

"No one can be happy with the kind of response which we've seen in New Orleans," said Republican Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts.

Bush got himself in trouble by trying to put the best face on a horrible situation. The strategy is so common in Washington that operatives have a name for it, "spin," and the Bush White House has perfected the shady art.

This is what the president had to say about the relief effort earlier in the week:

_"There's a lot of food on its way, a lot of water on the way, and there's a lot of boats and choppers headed that way."

_"Thousands have been rescued. There's thousands more to be rescued. And there's a lot of people focusing their efforts on that."

_"As we speak, people are moving into New Orleans area to maintain law and order."

Technically, the president may have been right. Help was on the way, if not fast enough to handle one of the largest emergency response efforts in U.S. history. But the words were jarring to Americans who saw images of looters, abandoned corpses and angry, desperate storm victims.

It was worse when he was wrong. In one interview, Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." In fact, many experts predicted a major storm would bust New Orleans' flood-control barriers.

One reason the public relations effort backfired on Bush is that Americans have seen it before.

On Iraq alone, the rhetoric has repeatedly fallen far short of reality. Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction. The mission wasn't accomplished in May 2003. Most allies avoided the hard work of his "coalition of the willing." And dozens of U.S. soldiers have died since Vice President Dick Cheney declared that insurgents were in their "last throes."

Bush often touts the health of the U.S. economy, which is fair game because many indicators point in that direction. But the public doesn't share his rosy view. The global economy had most Americans worried about job and pension security even before rising gas added to their anxieties.

Bush's spokesman said anybody involved in leaking the identity of a CIA agent would be fired, but no action has been taken against officials accused of doing so.

The president himself promised to fully pay for his school reform plan and strip pork-barrel spending from a major highway bill. The school money fell short. The pork thrived.

The list goes on. But this didn't start with Bush. Former President Clinton certainly had his rhetoric vs. reality problems. Indeed, most politicians do. At some point, however, the spin can take a toll.

Bush crafted a reputation as a blunt-speaking, can-do leader from his response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Five months later, about three-fourths of Americans viewed him as honest.

But his trust rating dropped gradually to a slim majority by the 2004 election year and remained at the mid-50s through the early part of 2005. In August, an AP-Ipsos poll showed 48 percent of respondents considered Bush honest, the lowest level of his presidency.

Americans like straight-shooters, especially in an era that has seen vast failures by government and social institutions. People are witnessing another institutional failure in the Gulf Coast, and Bush reluctantly acknowledged it Friday.

"This is a storm that's going to require immediate action now," he said. Few would disagree.



- The Jays - 09-06-2005

Ladies and gentlemen, Keith Olberman.

Quote:This is not typically a newscast of commentary. I can recall only twice previously offering such perspectives, but something that Homeland Security Chertoff said at his news conference Saturday made this necessary.

Chertoff: "Louisiana is a city that is largely underwater."

Well, there's you're problem right there. If ever a slip of the tongue defined a government's response to a crisis. Forget the history of slashed federal budgets that might have saved the levees. Drop the imagery of the government watching Monty Python's Flying Circus while New Orleans drowned. Ignore the symbol of beaurocrats like Mr. Chertoff using only the future tense in terms of relief that they could have supplied last Monday and Tuesday.

We no longer need the PResident sounding like he's on some sort of fiv day tape delay to summarize this debacle. We now have Mr. Chertoff's indelible announcement that Louisiana is a city.

Politician after politician, Republican and Democrat alike has paraded before us unwilling or unable to shut of the 'I, me' switch in their heads, condescendingly telling us how moved they wereor or how devastated they were, congentially incapable of telling the difference between te destruction of a ctiy and the opening of a new supermarket somewhere.

And as that sorry recital of self-absorption drags on, I have resisted editorial comment. The effort needd to be on the effort to save the stranded. Even televisions meager were correctly devoted to telling the stories of the twin disasters, natural and government made.

But now, at last, it has stopped getting exponetially worse in Missipssippi and Alabama and New Orleans and Louisiana, the state, not the city. And having given our leaders the week or so they needed to get their acts together, that period of editorial silence I mentioned should come to an end.

No one is suggesting that mayors or governors in the afflicted areas nor the federal government should be able to stop hurricans. Lord knows that no one is suggesting that we should ever prioritize levee improvement for a below sea level city ahead of 450 million dollar worth of trophy bridges for the politicans in Alaska. But nationally, these are leaders who won re-election lat year largely by protraying their opponents as incapable of keeping this country safe. These are leaders who regularly pressured the news media in this country to report the re-opening of a school or a powerstation in Iraqand which regularly defies it's citizens not to stand up and cheer when something like that is accomplished.

Yet they couldn't even keep one school or power-station from being devastated by infrastruture collapse in New Orleans, even though the government had heard all the chatter from the scientists and city pallners and hurrican centers and some group who's purpose the government couldn't quite discern; a group called the ah, U.S. Army Corp of Engineers.

Most chillingly of all, this is the law and order and terror government. It promised protection, or at least amelioration against all threats, conventional, radiological or biological. It has just proved that it cannot save it's citizens from a biological weapon called 'standing water.'

Mr. Bush has now twice insited that "we are not satisfied" with the response to the manifold tragedies along the Gulf Coast. I wonder which we he thinks he's speaking for on this point. Perhaps it's the Administration, although we still don't know where some of them are. Anybody seen the Vice President lately? The man whose message at this time last year was 'I'll protect you, the other guy might let you die.' I don't know which we Mr. Bush meant.

For many of this countries citizens, the mantra has been, as we were taught in social studies, it should always be: whether or not I voted for this President, he is still my President. I suspect that anybody who had to give him that benefit of the doubt stopped doing so last week. I suspect also a lot of his supporters, looking ahead to '08, are wondering how they can distance themselves from the two words which will define his government, our government: New Orleans.

For him it is a shame, in all senses of the word. A few changes of pronouns in there and he might not have looked so much like a 21st century Marie Antoinette. All that was needed was a quick, 'I'm not satisfied with my government's response,' instead of hiding behind phrases like no one could have forseen. Had he only remembered Churchill's quote from the 1930's: "The responsibility of government for the public safety," Churchill said, "is absolute and requires no mandate. It is in fact the prime object for which governments come into existence." In forgetting that the current Administration did not merely damage itself, it damaged our confidence in our ability to rely on whoever is in the White House.

As we emphasized to you all last week, the realities of the region are such that New Orleans is going to be largely uninhabitable for a lot longer than anybody is yet able to recognize. Lord knows when the last body will be found or the last artifact of the levee break dug up. Could be next March, could be the year 2100. By then, in the muck and toxic mire of New Orleans they may even find our governments credibility. Somewhere in the 'city' of Louisiana.
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- Sir O - 09-06-2005

It's been a week...I still can't fucking believe this shit is happening in America. I gave $250 and a pint of my own blood yesterday and I still feel like I haven't done shit...people are still dying and I'm up here in NJ with my electricity and phone and all...

I'm starting to understand what it is to be not just an American, but a human. We help out those under us because it makes us all stronger in the end. It's so fucking simple.

Why is anyone in NO left with no food and water? For whatever reason, it's unacceptable. We're a better country than that.

That should be our motto, our goal: "We're a better country than that!"

Because we are, and seeing fucking people dying of starvation should not happen in America. Fuck yeah!

I talked to my father, my co-worker, and my landlord - all Vietnam vets - and they all agreed that this is the worst thing America has seen. Worst attack - natural or human - worse than Pearl Harbor or 9/11.

And still people are being rescued. In America. Why?



- The Jays - 09-06-2005

How can we have government at all when they have forgotten why we have governments to begin with?

Government to Bush is nothing more than Karl Rove standing next to him with the schedule.



- HedCold - 09-06-2005

haliburton got the contract to clean up new orleans and i guess the surrounding areas


- The Jays - 09-06-2005

well of ocurse, they're the only people who know how to rebuild stuff they've let get detroyed


- Arpikarhu - 09-06-2005

because new orleans is all halliburton's fault. right? right?


- Mad - 09-06-2005

The Big Easy has always been spook central (as in spys, not the colored kind) doesn't really surprise me of how those thieves get no bid contracts and end up over billing the shit out of them.


- Galt - 09-06-2005

I still say, yes absolutely the federal government dropped the ball with funding, focusing too much training to emergency personnel on terrorism vs. anything else, depleting all resources by pushing them overseas, and just being generally incompetant. Granted. No question. No defense.

But I think the local governments are getting way too much of a pass here. As was mentioned, I think the first line of work for any type of thing like this should belong to the city, state, fed, in that order. And that's why when 9/11 came along, Guiliani was treated as a God, with Pataki as well. The senators and President got their camera time, but it was clearly Rudy and Pataki that made things happen so efficiently and effectively (and yes, NY has a lot more money both in their own right and from the government; the disaster didn't cover hundreds of acres and millions of gallons of pollution, yes; the cleanup was easier, but the work was clearly done by the locality, not the federal government.)

And the fact that New Orleans didn't have a solid evacuation plan in place really doesn't fall at the feet of the federal government and really made everything infinitely more horrible. Looking at those hundreds of city buses underwater and knowing that the Mayor did not include ANY public transportation methods of evacuation, I'd say is the #1 reason so many people died. Anything else that occured after that, was augmented by the amount of people who were still there.

From what I saw over the weekend, it was mostly the poor who had no money or no method to leave that ended up staying and dying. Surely there had to be some way to help them leave.

And I don't want to come across like so many of the other Monday Morning QBs who act like you can just snap your fingers and move billions of dollars of funding and thousands of people into action on a whim, but the buses were there. They couldn't have gotten at least a few of them some gas and some drivers, schedule a few pickups and get people out of dodge?

And I still am baffled by Hedcold's comment about why the hell the evacuation could only use the outbound lanes of traffic. Surely no one was coming IN to New Orleans. I'm sure there's some reason, but I just don't get it.



- The Sleeper - 09-06-2005

they did open up all of the lanes to get out. and i agree that this was a catastrophic failure by all levels of government


- Galt - 09-06-2005

I know I saw some pictures where one side of the highway was empty and the other was completely filled. As did Hedcold, which is the first comment in the thread. I'm sure there had to be some other reason that makes more sense than Arpi's retort, but I have no idea why they would have done this.

It's like the "well the buses would have weighed too much and we didn't have people with those licenses, so it would be illegal" as the reason why they didn't use the buses to evacuate people. I pray that wasn't the reason, and there was a real reason having to do with fuel or drivers or routes or something, because if it truly was "it would have been breaking the rules" then holy shit, that's just retarded.



- Mad - 09-06-2005

Some 17 year old colored kid stole a school bus and loaded it up with a bunch of people. He didn't know how to drive it and everyone chipped in for gas. They all made it to Texas and some news twat is calling him a hero because of it, seems like charges should be filed, but they won't be.

The Mayor of NO should be hung out to dry, same with the Governor for their complete lack of leadership in a time of crisis.



- The Jays - 09-07-2005

Galt Wrote:It's like the "well the buses would have weighed too much and we didn't have people with those licenses, so it would be illegal" as the reason why they didn't use the buses to evacuate people. I pray that wasn't the reason, and there was a real reason having to do with fuel or drivers or routes or something, because if it truly was "it would have been breaking the rules" then holy shit, that's just retarded.
Dude, it's not a matter of illegal, it's a matter of fucking physics.

You've obviously watched the movie "Speed" too much, and think that if Sandra Bullock can do do it, then yes, a regular person can just take the driver's seat of a 20 foot long vehicle holding over 20 passengers and drive it at 55 miles per hour.

A person needs to undergo traning, and driving classes, which are very different from when you go your regular license. A driver needs to learn how to drive with 15,000 pounds of load. You think they wouldn't have deployed the buses if just anyone was able to drive one of these things, at maximum highway speed, for 6 hours in order to flee the city?

And, on top of that, even if there were that many qualified drivers, you think those are state employees?? They are private citizens, with families, who are not first responders; they all evecuated with the rest of the city before hand.



- Galt - 09-07-2005

OMG!!! THE BUS IS HALF FULL! Problem 1 solved.

I'm sure there were problems, reasons, whatever. There are certainly excuses, even questionably valid ones. Just like I'm sure there are some questionably valid reasons why the federal government took their seemingly assine actions. I just think that the all-to-common knee-jerk reaction to blame the federal government for local failings is faulty. The first line of responsibility should always fall at the feet of the local governments. That's why they exist. That is in no way absolving the federal government from their fault in cutting funding / training etc.

And lets not also forget to fault the idiots who stayed there for whatever reason. Certainly some had no ability to get out, but the stories I've seen are of people who said they'd "wait it out". Before the hurricane hit, the offiicals were basically saying "if we evacuate and you don't leave, you're on your own". It was all over the papers. At some point, you have to point the finger at people and let them take responsibility for their own actions.

You even did so at the beginning of this thread before you found God.



- diceisgod - 09-07-2005

This reminds me of the time the ecto containment chamber was overfull and the city officials shut it down and then boom.


- HedCold - 09-07-2005

well on the shots of the highway i saw there were occasionally a few cars that were going the other way, i guess emergency vehicles. but there was no reason why the emergency vehicles needed all 3 (or 4, whatever it is) lanes at that time. i think that was on I-10. the other highway out of the town was using both sides.


- The Jays - 09-07-2005

Galt, your problem seems to be that you're still trying to talk about last Saturday. Everyone else is talk about what happened over the next 6 days it took to have FEMA in control of the city.

Knee-Jerk response? It took until Friday for my knee-jerk to occur, which just so happened to coincide with the fact that thousands of people had been in a convention center for a week without anyone coming to feed them or get them out. How is the local government suppose to have the supplies to take care of that, not even considering the police force it would take. Ever been to a footbal game? Ever try and count many security guards they have? You think that the NOPD would have that type of force at its fucking finger tips, never mind the rest of the force that would need to be deployed to stop looters on the street, after the entire city was just detroyed in the most destructive hurricane ever?

Everyone wants to hold NY up as the example for proper way to keep a situation from going out of control. In fact, we sent just about every city emergency responder into the WTC, and then watched them all fucking die.

This hurricane was even worse than 9/11, communications cut, martial law, looting, flood. Now, you're saying they should have anticipated all of that on the 28th, AND that they should have also anticipated that the federal government will not be responding until Bush comes on Friday.



- Galt - 09-07-2005

FEMA is not a first-response unit. It never was set up to be one. That's why there are local fire departments and local police and state and blah blah blah. It should not have taken a week to get them there, but it's not going to be two days to mobilize thousands of people. It is going to to day a few days. I just does. That's all I'm saying. By knee-jerk I mean that people's first reaction is that the federal government shold be fixing issues, when it should not be the case.

Obviously, we are a different country since the Consitution, more populous and with easier transportation, but there was no gray area. No question that the federal government was not responsible for state issues. That the federal government has gotten bigger every day and become more powerful is a negative. They are clearly slow and plodding and inefficient.

If people expect the federal government to be in charge of things like this, they are wrong. If they want them to be, then more often than not, it's going to be a shitstorm



- The Jays - 09-07-2005

Quote:"They've got people here who are search-and-rescue certified, paramedics, haz-mat certified," said a Texas firefighter. "We're sitting in here having a sexual-harassment class while there are still [victims] in Louisiana who haven't been contacted yet."

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