+- CDIH (https://www.cdih.net/cdih)
+-- Forum: General Discussion and Entertainment (https://www.cdih.net/cdih/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: The Pit (https://www.cdih.net/cdih/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: War, Terrorism, etc. (/showthread.php?tid=4774)
- Sir O - 01-11-2003
Lately I've been reading up on history and talking to various people and doing some thinking and whatnot and I've come to the conclusion that I really don't support the American government and its foreign policy. I also don't support the "war on terrorism", any potential conflicts in N Korea and Iraq, and domestic policies related to these matters. Not that I don't feel bad for the people who died on 9/11 or anything like that, but it was almost inevitable. It would be nice if our government would basically take a "live and let live" stance regarding foreign affairs, but the reality as I see it is it's more like a "live and make sure everyone else lives by our rules" stance.
Not that this is anything new, really - Nicaragua is still suffering from the aftereffects of our "help" in the 80's during the Reagan era, where we violated international law and ignored the World Court as we ransacked a reasonably prosperous and democratic nation for no real discernable reason other than they didn't play by our rules. They are now one of the two most impoverished nations in the western hemisphere, along with Haiti. Is it any coincidence that the two nations in need of the most help are also the two nations that have seen the most interference by the United States?
And speaking of Haiti, I find it almost amusing that at the same time as we're fighting this war on terrorism, we continue to harbor a known terrorist in our own country. Emmanuel Constant, one of the leaders of the Front for Advancement of Progress in Haiti (FRAPH), a paramilitary political organization allied with the army group that has been implicated in the widespread torture and rape of supporters of Haitian President Jean Bertrand Aristide during his period of forced exile, is living free within our own borders, despite numerous attempts by the Haitian government to have him extradited and brought to trial. Are all terrorists not created equal?
And what exactly is terrorism anyway? Could our starving of Afgani and Iraqui civilians be considered terrorism? Could the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki be considered terrorism (think before you answer...it's not as simple as "they started it with Pearl Harbor")? Could the Vietnam War be considered U.S. terrorism? And going back further, could forcing natives off their own land, practically wiping out their entire population, and taking their land as our own, be considered terrorism?
I have a ton of shit on my mind and a lot more to say, but that's enough for now I guess. Reading up on history and government as told through more unbiased sources, rather than the jingoist American media, really paints an ugly picture, one that not many people want to know. Sort of like how the father of a criminal is so blinded by love for his son that he can't accept the fact that he's not exactly the angel he thought he raised. I know this is somewhat of a Dent-esque topic that will likely get a bunch of "this thread sux" replies and a bunch of oh-so-witty smilies in lieu of well thought out responses. Whatever. If you do care, what do you think? What are the goals of the war on terrorism? Who does our foreign policy benefit, besides ourselves?
- fbd - 01-11-2003
i've said this before...us foreign policy sucks. it has sucked ever since good old teddy roosevelt and his big stick politics. before then, we just minded out own business, but nooooo, we had to go and meddle. the world hates us because we had to take out half of the third world leaders becuase of their "communist" leanings. since when is it communist to want your country to make money and not the rich american guy who bought the land?
- GonzoStyle - 01-11-2003
I always said, let them fight it out. It's like a husband and wife arguing, it's none of your business, it's a family affair.
Worry about your own family, instead of playing savior for everyone else BUT your own blood.
- The Sleeper - 01-11-2003
I was told once that lots of American high schools don't teach the French Revolution of 1968(?) because it was a public uprising against capitalism and they do not want to give young people those type of thoughts. Something to think about.
- GonzoStyle - 01-11-2003
The fact that public schools don't teach us historical truth is nothing new. All they teach us is what they want us to know, like the fact the americans won world war 2.
- crx girl - 01-11-2003
wasn't the french revolution in 1789?
- LyricalGomez - 01-11-2003
I personally always liked the spin on the whole american indian story.
Well, yes, we just took their land, yes we basically destroyed a culture....but other countries have done worse things so let's move on.
- Goatweed - 01-11-2003
I don't know anything about history to be honest, but the war on terrorism sounded and looked promising after 9/11. With this stance we're taking with Iraq, it looks less promising to me and more bullyish than anything else. DO I think Iraq has these WOMD? probably, but not as much as is being made out to be. And why are we holding back our "proof" from the inspectors? Wouldn't we WANT to help them out? They can't find a Damn thing, and now I read today that the Bush Admin. is saying that they don't need a smoking gun, they're gonna go in anyway because he has them and he better fess up. I have had and currently do have a really bad feeling about this Iraq mess - I think it's going to cause a lot more grief for us than we think.
- The Sleeper - 01-11-2003
Quote:wasn't the french revolution in 1789?and 1968
- GonzoStyle - 01-11-2003
Quote:wasn't the french revolution in 1789?
I believe sleeper meant the student uprising in paris, which took place in 1968. It was much like the student rioting, protesting, etc in the US against the vietnam war that took place. Although the cultural impact of the paris uprising was far more monumental and affected france greatly, to this day.
- The Jays - 01-11-2003
.... Ok, I''ll agree that there are bad things about US foreign policy. So, if you could make US foreign policy better, what would you do?
- QuickStop - 01-11-2003
not have one...and build a big wall
- crx girl - 01-11-2003
i guess mine was one of those high schools. we didn't even learn about it in french class.
- GonzoStyle - 01-11-2003
Self education is the only education, you can't afford to believe what others tell you. Go and find the truth yourself, school is like an ignition to knowlege, you gotta do the actual driving though.
- Sir O - 01-11-2003
Quote:So, if you could make US foreign policy better, what would you do?It's tough to say, really. I think the ideal foreign policy is no foreign policy, but that's not feasable now and it's doubtful it ever will be. We're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place - our current intrusive policy has the rest of the world angry with us, but putting an end to it would mean cutting off countries that depend on us for aid. I definitely think, though, that we should begin developing alternate fuel sources to oil, because our dependence on petroleum, and our government's desire to control the countries that provide us with that oil as much as possible, leads to much unnecessary resentment. I also feel that the CIA in its present form does much more harm than good, and should be restructured to serve its stated purpose (national security) and nothing else.
- Isis - 01-11-2003
Quote:Self education is the only education, you can't afford to believe what others tell you. Go and find the truth yourself, school is like an ignition to knowlege, you gotta do the actual driving though.
This a very true and real way of looking at it all, I think today people choose to follow way too much, instead of going out there and getting it for themselves. Knowledge is wide, not just by reading and research of the facts but experience is also one sort of road towards knowledge.
One has to dig the holes and enter inside to come to something.
- Isis - 01-11-2003
As for the 'war on terrorism' from my own personal veiw it hasnt gone anywhere good, the progress of it is still the same when the whole idea started with.
I dont trust Bush or his reasons when it comes to international politics, I find him to be just as bad as any other Saddam or Bin Ladin, they all sink in the same place in the end.
Also it has gone thru my mind a few times, how innocent people who have (their nation) gotten attacked by USA during this time or are going to, they must consider USA to be the terror in their lives.
So in the end where is the difference?
Hmm for me this all seems like a huge mess and the irony in it, is that nobody is any better than they think they are.
- Sir O - 01-12-2003
Quote:This a very true and real way of looking at it all, I think today people choose to follow way too much, instead of going out there and getting it for themselves.Because that's easy. It's easy to rehash what you've learned through regular education, and have people agree with you, because everyone else has learned the exact same things. It's much more difficult to apply the things you might have learned independently to everyday life. There will always be obstacles, which unfortunately, seem to be placed by mainstream-type thinking...
Quote:As for the 'war on terrorism' from my own personal veiw it hasnt gone anywhere good, the progress of it is still the same when the whole idea started with.Which is, what exactly? It's a war on an abstract concept. In the eyes of very many people, a US war on terrorism would be a war against ourselves.
Quote:Also it has gone thru my mind a few times, how innocent people who have (their nation) gotten attacked by USA during this time or are going to, they must consider USA to be the terror in their livesNobody calls themselves terrorists. Nobody calls their allies terrorists.
Quote:Hmm for me this all seems like a huge mess and the irony in it, is that nobody is any better than they think they are.I see everyone as being worse than they think they are...ourselves in particular.
- Hoon - 01-12-2003
I think we (US) should use the middle east as a old ammo dump.
Inload all old ammo and test new weapons on them.
This will not only erradicate them, it will provide valuable training for our military.
You dont have to tell me...I already know Im a genious.