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+--- Thread: Classless Warfare (/showthread.php?tid=8772)
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- Keyser Soze - 03-31-2004
Great website for fairly independent views on politics.
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Theres a real good essay there on how we should deal with terrorism.
beginning teenweek like cut and paste here....
"As the public tesimony winds down in front of the September 11 commission, several things are pretty clear. One, the United States government going back probably to the Reagan administration never took the threat of terrorism as seriously as they should have, nor did they deal with it the way they should have.
I don't care what Richard Clarke says about the Clinton administration. A low body count does not equal success. Each attach by Al Qaeda became more bold than the previous one, culminating in the attacks of September 11. They didn't do as much as they could have, or should have.
The Bush administration does not get off lightly either. George Tenet and John Ashcroft both should have been fired in light of 9/11. Other high level members of the CIA and FBI should have been fired as well. You don't allow a breach of that magnitude to take place and not pay the price for it. Tenet for not more agrressively going after Al Qaeda and John Ashcroft for thinking the pointless drug war and porno was more important than counter-terrorism.
At the end of the day, none of it really matters. The attacks happened, and as a result, the outlook on how to deal with the terror threat has changed. Oliver, in a rambling entry takes to complaining about Iraq as many have. The charges that we're "diverting resources" away from the war on terror is complete hogwash. The war on terror is not one that is fought with tanks, gunships and fighter jets. Oliver and his ilk are claiming we need more troops in Afghanistan. Why? So they can run around in the mountains of Afghanistan for the next couple of years looking in caves for scattered remnants of the Taliban and Al Qaeda? It's so easy to say, "We need 15,000 more troops in Afghanistan!", but what value does it have? The answer is, it doesn't. But it sounds good, so people will keep repeating it.
The war on terror now is going to rely heavily on covert operations and the intelligence community. It means more vigorous enforcement of immigration laws and the scaling back of things like student visas so that people like Mohammed Atta cannot get into this country to plan attacks against us. Chances are, it probably means a return to something so many have loathed recently: profiling. It doesn't do any good to keep an eye on Grandma Moses while she's at the airport, but a young Saudi national here on a student visa I'm sorry to say is somebody that deserves a second look.
As far as Iraq is concerned, it had ties to terrorism, and Saddam Hussein, just through his presence created instability in the region. He should have been dealt with long ago. People can mock the results all they want, but the fact of the matter is, Iraq is going to have a constitution, the likes of which is nowhere to be found in the Middle East other than Israel. Our action against Iraq has had the kind of repercussions that naysayers claimed would not exist. The increasing protests in Iran, new freedom based protests in Syria and Libya seeking once again to normalize relations all put water on the fiery arguments of those who claim it would have the reverse affect. The war on terrorism has been strengthened, not weakened by what happened in Iraq, despite what happened in Spain.
We have paid a price of course, and that price is being shamelessly exploited by those opposed to the war to score their own political points. They're the same people that complained when President Bush used images of 9/11 in a campaign ad, but they don't have any problem repeating the phrase 'dead soldiers' for maximum political effect.
Iraq is no save haven as the continuing attacks prove. But the Iraqi people agree that their lives are better now that Saddam is no longer there. They recognize it. Other parts of the world recognize it. That stands above all of the sniping about 'profiteering' and 'settling old scores' which is nothing but partisan bullsheot. There's no substance to it and it sounds like a campaign ad. A bad one at that.
The global war on terror is going to continue. The threat of Al Qaeda would exist if we never went after Saddam and had 200,000 troops traipsing all over the mountains of Afghanistan. The question is, What methods will we use to stop it?
It's painfully obvious that was employed throughout the 1990's failed miserably. Diplomatic and law enforcement type solutions did nothing. It didn't scare them off, and too many people were busy covering their own asses to make any diplomatic solution work. The scary thing is, Oliver and his crowd support John Kerry, who wants a return to that way of thinking in dealing with that threat. Oh sure, you can brag about imprisoning Ramsey Yousef and marvel at how great we did in thwarting millenium attacks, but who cares? What did it do? They still went and carried out the most daring and deadly terrorist attacks the world has ever seen on United States soil.
John Kerry would return to that way of thinking and would defer to the UN when it comes to protecting our national security. That's not leadership. That's a backward way of thinking that opens us up to new attacks. The Bush administration has been far from perfect in that regard. But I'll sleep safer knowing he's in the White House.
"
- GonzoStyle - 04-01-2004
Fuck everyone cause they all have agenda's no matter how close to honest they can be. The only people I trust are comedians when it comes to my political views, or atleast their writers who are probably layed off or former political analysts themselves.
I just don't trust hearing politics from politicians, I'll listen to a carlin, maher, or a writer like vidal. But I don't wanna hear politics from politicians, just get it done cause most of the shit they spew ain't ever gonna get done.
It's all about ideas, never about execution. Bush, Kerry same difference this time around. Dean i'd vote for but unfortunatly people say they want honesty and a no nonsense president, yet when they get a candidate like that they get scared off like they did with McCain and Dean. I guarantee most people wont vote for Kerry cause they actually believe him or trust him or think he'll do better, the reason will be simple: "he's not george w. bush".
- The Sleeper - 04-01-2004
Quote:I just don't trust hearing politics from politicians, I'll listen to a carlin, maher, or a writer like vidal.I agree, the only politically based show I ever watched/listened to consistently was Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.
- GonzoStyle - 04-01-2004
Maher actually had Vidal on his finale a couple weeks ago and he was scrumpulicious.
- Kid Afrika - 04-01-2004
Ok, I'm gonna shoot from the hip on this one. Only my opinion, not backed by any quotes or anything, jost how I see shit...
Bush fucked us over and made us look like asses. We were not attacked by Saddam Hussein. Iraq probably has less ties to terrorism than our country does.
Where are we now? Other countries of the world will surely never respect us. Not that they ever did, but now it's only fear of our brazen disrepect for the opinions of the international community.
Security at airports these days is ridiculous. It does nothing to thwart terror. If it did, where are the terrorists we've caught? All the security does is inconvenience American citizens. If you want to secure this country, shut down the borders, I agree with that aspect of the essay quoted above. It's as if we are made to be prisoners under the watchful eye of the gov't just because we are citizens. Meanwhile, illegal immigrants are reaping the benefits of social assistance and all the benefits of being citizens without any of the hassle we have to go through.
Finally, will I vote for a president? Nope.
Why? Because there's nobody worth voting for, and there never will be. Any truly revolutionary president will not even make it on the ballot. The old heads in corporate America will not accept anyone that they can't buy off, and as such, they are the ones who really run this country. It just so happens that the Bush family is a part of this corporate machine. Coincidence? I think not. The American presidency is a joke, and our rights being taken away is the punchline. Don't get me wrong, this may be the best country in the world to live in, but it's far from perfect or even ideal.
- Arpikarhu - 04-01-2004
if you dont vote, dont bitch. if you arent part of the process then you have no voice. write in a candidate if you dont like the part offerings. all of you who say they wont vote have removed themselves from the process of democracy and should just keep quiet.
- Keyser Soze - 04-01-2004
i agree with arpi. i can't stand these people who say "well all the candidates suck so i'm not voting". you're just fat and lazy. write in Dean, vote for Nader, I don't give a fuck, just don't spout your pompous opinions about how the political system is fucked up and then completely throw away the most powerful part of the entire process. your single vote. i can't stand people who say their vote doesnt count. because if you added up all the people who say the same shit, THEIR VOTES WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE MAKE A FUCKING DIFFERENCE.
- Arpikarhu - 04-01-2004
ditto
- Black Lazerus - 04-01-2004
I hate when i agree with arpi but he's right.
- Arpikarhu - 04-01-2004
rock on! its me, the sex liar, and the negro against all you non-voting dopes!
- The Jays - 04-01-2004
Quote:The only people I trust are comedians
It's true. Comedy requires a full understanding of the world you live in. Maybe the best politician is the one who can tell the most jokes, be the funniest?
- The Sleeper - 04-01-2004
DEMOCRACY SHMEMOCRACY !
- Galt - 04-01-2004
1. it's a pain in the ass to vote. At least an hour process
2. Living in Massachusetts and now in New York, I could vote 500,000 times and it wouldn't impact who wins
3. Who is president really doesn't impact me in any meaningful way.
4. I don't really care
5. I don't complain about who is president so I guess I adhere to the "If you don't vote; don't complain" mandate
6. I do think I've voted in every presidential election since I could vote, and my guy has never won.
- HedCold - 04-01-2004
i've always thought matt and trey from south park should run for some form of office. i know south park isn't as "cool" as it used to be but they know how to be fair to both sides
- The Jays - 04-01-2004
Quote:it's a pain in the ass to vote. At least an hour process
Where are you voting?
How bout sign up for an absentee ballot? That way, you don't have to go to the polling place.
Quote:I do think I've voted in every presidential election since I could vote, and my guy has never won.
So, Bush, Dole, Gore?
- Kid Afrika - 04-01-2004
You who say, "if you don't vote, you don't have a say" are fucking ridiculous. I can voice an opinion because I am a citizen of this country. How do I choose to voice my opinion? By not voting. That's my prerogative as a citizen of this country. How does a throw-away vote count for any more than not voting? I have a social security number, I pay taxes, and thus I am counted as a part of this country, albeit a non-voting member of society. Again, I say what would a vote for Nader do? Not a god damned thing. Losing by 10 votes is no different than losing by 100,000. You still lost.
Besides, we all know this is a two party country and will be for the forseeable future. Voting outside of party lines is moot.
- Keyser Soze - 04-01-2004
i think of people who don't vote as immature. their comments about politics hold little weight to me because they're not part of the process.
- Kid Afrika - 04-01-2004
Well, that and 75 cents will get you a Sunday paper.
You can shoosh me all you want, but your vote for Bush is a travesty. Your vote for Kerry a joke. Your vote for anyone else amounts to fuck all as far as the results of the election.
You say that people who don't vote are immature. I say that people who do vote for the sorry excuses for candidates presented are completely and utterly deluded.
- Keyser Soze - 04-01-2004
If you stay home on election day, youre telling your neighbors go ahead you make the decisions for me.
If you dont vote because you think elected officials dont care about you youre right, they dont care about you. How can they? They dont know what you want.
If you say all politicians are alike, and theres not enough difference to make voting worthwhile, youre just like all the other people who dont vote.
If you dont vote, you forfeit the right to complain about the politicians you didnt vote for. If you dont vote, you cant write letters asking your representative in government to support or oppose an issue you do care about.
If you say you're too busy to vote, you're telling your children its okay to pass up important obligations.
If you dont vote, you throw away what thousands of men and women gave their lives for.
If you dont vote, you throw away what millions of men and women would give their lives for.
If you dont vote, in this country, you're not breaking any laws.
bad politicians are elected by good people who dont vote. Your vote is a powerful thing. In some elections a handful of votes cast will make all the difference.
EVERY FUCKING VOTE COUNTS!
how do you think the republicans took over congress? you think the current establishment represents the majority of the country? you must be kidding.
And thats why you should vote.
- diceisgod - 04-01-2004
Carlin is the best political orator since Hitler.