06-07-2004, 06:38 PM
Look, I'm not trying to argue that Reagan was a horrible president, or that he didn't have his positive qualities. Overall, his economic policies were a success. Inflation dropped, unemployment dropped. Those are good things. But along with that, we got increased federal spending and soaring defecits. Those are bad things.
The only president ever who actually decreased the size of the federal government and cut defecits, while maintaining low inflation and unemployment, was Bill Clinton (who, BTW, I wouldn't classify as a great president).
Sure, Reagan was loved by most of the people. He was charming, charismatic, funny, a sort of father figure. He was an actor. He was the perfect front for an agenda that was in many ways the exact opposite of the facade he presented.
And to imply that he wasn't aware of Iran-Contra...please. Either he was complicit in what was happening, or he was absolutely incompetent. The President of the United States not aware of what's happening right under his nose? Surely a "great president" would be more vigilant, no?
In all, under Reagan, we were treated to:
14 convictions on Iran/Contra
2 convictions of illegal lobbying
16 convictions in HUD scandal
And it could have been worse, but, well, you know....
![[Image: pardonsm.jpg]](http://www.bartcop.com/pardonsm.jpg)
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If you want the names of all of them, I'll need a couple of days - I have copies of the actual reports, yes I know I'm a loser. The HUD case, the influence peddling, and Iran/Contra were overseen by three different investigators and there are three different enormous reports, but here are SOME of the names of the convicted I recall by memory:
- Lyn Nofziger (infulence peddling)
- Michael Deaver (influence peddling)
- John Poindexter (conspiracy to mislead Congress, obstructing congressional inquiries)
- Richard Secord (conspiracy to mislead Congress)
- Rita Lavelle (lying to Congressional subcomittee)
- James Watt (indicted on 41 felony charges, plea-bargained to witholding documents)
Then there are the indicted and/or convicted individuals who were pardoned (pre-emptively in some cases) by Dubya's Daddy - I know these guys by heart:
National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane guilty of withholding information to Congress, fined
Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, indicted on five counts for lying to Congress
Clair E. George (CIA) indicted for perjury
Elliott Abrams, assistant secretary of state, guilty of withholding information
Duane R. Clarridge, C.I.A., indicted for misleading Congress,
Alan D. Fiers, C.I.A., plead guilty to charge of withholding information from Congress
All together, 138 Reagan officials were convicted, indicted, or underwent official crimminal investigation (many of whom resigned - about a dozen in the EPA alone if I recall correctly). No doubt this number would have been higher had the investigations not been halted by GHW Bush's ass-saving pardons.
I'm sorry, but I have very high standards for determining what qualifies as a great president. You can't take the good and brush off the bad - it's just dishonest.
The only president ever who actually decreased the size of the federal government and cut defecits, while maintaining low inflation and unemployment, was Bill Clinton (who, BTW, I wouldn't classify as a great president).
Sure, Reagan was loved by most of the people. He was charming, charismatic, funny, a sort of father figure. He was an actor. He was the perfect front for an agenda that was in many ways the exact opposite of the facade he presented.
And to imply that he wasn't aware of Iran-Contra...please. Either he was complicit in what was happening, or he was absolutely incompetent. The President of the United States not aware of what's happening right under his nose? Surely a "great president" would be more vigilant, no?
In all, under Reagan, we were treated to:
14 convictions on Iran/Contra
2 convictions of illegal lobbying
16 convictions in HUD scandal
And it could have been worse, but, well, you know....
(screen.width/2)){this.width = (this.width/2)}" onclick="javascript:if(this.width > (screen.width/2)){this.width = (this.width/2)} else {this.width = (this.width*2)}" border="0" alt='Posted image: Click to resize'>If you want the names of all of them, I'll need a couple of days - I have copies of the actual reports, yes I know I'm a loser. The HUD case, the influence peddling, and Iran/Contra were overseen by three different investigators and there are three different enormous reports, but here are SOME of the names of the convicted I recall by memory:
- Lyn Nofziger (infulence peddling)
- Michael Deaver (influence peddling)
- John Poindexter (conspiracy to mislead Congress, obstructing congressional inquiries)
- Richard Secord (conspiracy to mislead Congress)
- Rita Lavelle (lying to Congressional subcomittee)
- James Watt (indicted on 41 felony charges, plea-bargained to witholding documents)
Then there are the indicted and/or convicted individuals who were pardoned (pre-emptively in some cases) by Dubya's Daddy - I know these guys by heart:
National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane guilty of withholding information to Congress, fined
Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, indicted on five counts for lying to Congress
Clair E. George (CIA) indicted for perjury
Elliott Abrams, assistant secretary of state, guilty of withholding information
Duane R. Clarridge, C.I.A., indicted for misleading Congress,
Alan D. Fiers, C.I.A., plead guilty to charge of withholding information from Congress
All together, 138 Reagan officials were convicted, indicted, or underwent official crimminal investigation (many of whom resigned - about a dozen in the EPA alone if I recall correctly). No doubt this number would have been higher had the investigations not been halted by GHW Bush's ass-saving pardons.
I'm sorry, but I have very high standards for determining what qualifies as a great president. You can't take the good and brush off the bad - it's just dishonest.