State Of The Union

[HedCold]

stephanie "steals" dj's part in a commercial audition! intense stuff

[Black Lazerus]

I would rather have a surplus in budget to pay off our deficit than a tax break.

[The Jays]

Won't the surplus come back once our economy is just as strong as it was under Clinton?

Simple - the American people, those that voted for him and those who didn't, didn't support his enormous tax cut. So he set out to try and convince people that the economy was bad - which in Republican terms means in need of stimulation through tax cuts. If he could make everyone think things were starting to turn to shit, he believed he could justify his larger tax cut. Even better, since he knew the economy was truly in good shape, once he got his tax cut passed, he could stop pretending there was a bad economy looming, and instead claim there would have been a downturn, but his tax cut saved the day.

What, exactly, would be the fucking point of all that? He uses his magic words, makes the economy turn down, for what? To pass a tax cut? And then he says it's all ok, and the economy comes back?
Why do all that?

[Galt]

I was in the cutting edge of the technology boom that led the economic run and downfall. It was like someone turned off a switch in March of 2000.

Technology spending is incredibly cyclical and as companies become weary of their revenues, they shut it off.

It just stopped. This was before the election. Well before. The stock market tumbled, hires, other capital expenditures just dried up.

You are fooling yourself or just plain ignorant to think otherwise. Look at revenues for companies in 99, 00, 01, and 02 to see just how quickly things got real bad.

I don't know what industry you were in, or what your boss was saying, but I was on the street. I was selling equipment from the companies that were booming the most, and selling to companies that were booming the most. They all just stopped and it was inevitable that things were coming to a screetching halt.

WELL before any presidential election.

Just like how in '92 the economy was turning around before Clinton got in office (check those numbers too. Re: unemployment, GDP growth et al)

[Galt]

Check the dates. Might not fit into your warped view of republican: bad, crooked, out for big business, but sorry. It took me all of 10 seconds to pull up the info.

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[GonzoStyle]

People getting excited about the 300 bucks they got back from bush's tax relief is like candians thinking their health care is really free. People ended up paying out the ass in other ways.

[Galt]

and talk about self fullfilling prophesies (and triple posting!)...how about Lieberman says the economy has a headcold, but if we pass the tax cut it'll be pnemonia, knowing that economy is bad (as ummmm all key economic indicators showed before the election!!) and a tax cut can't fix it (nor was in intended to fix anything -- the purpose of the tax cut was because there was a surplus meaning too taxpayers were overbilled and therefore should be refunded -- what a novel idea!) so when the economy continues to decline, he can blame the tax cut.

No!!!! A politician would NEVER do that!

[GonzoStyle]

Words of hope that still ring true today, JFK's inaugural speech - 1961

We observe today not a victory of party but a celebration of freedom--symbolizing an end as well as a beginning--signifying renewal as well as change. For I have sworn before you and Almighty God the same solemn oath our forbears prescribed nearly a century and three-quarters ago.

The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe--the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state but from the hand of God.

We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans--born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage--and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.

This much we pledge--and more.

To those old allies whose cultural and spiritual origins we share, we pledge the loyalty of faithful friends. United there is little we cannot do in a host of cooperative ventures. Divided there is little we can do--for we dare not meet a powerful challenge at odds and split asunder.

To those new states whom we welcome to the ranks of the free, we pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have passed away merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny. We shall not always expect to find them supporting our view. But we shall always hope to find them strongly supporting their own freedom--and to remember that, in the past, those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside.

To those people in the huts and villages of half the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required--not because the communists may be doing it, not because we seek their votes, but because it is right. If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.

To our sister republics south of our border, we offer a special pledge--to convert our good words into good deeds--in a new alliance for progress--to assist free men and free governments in casting off the chains of poverty. But this peaceful revolution of hope cannot become the prey of hostile powers. Let all our neighbors know that we shall join with them to oppose aggression or subversion anywhere in the Americas. And let every other power know that this Hemisphere intends to remain the master of its own house.

To that world assembly of sovereign states, the United Nations, our last best hope in an age where the instruments of war have far outpaced the instruments of peace, we renew our pledge of support--to prevent it from becoming merely a forum for invective--to strengthen its shield of the new and the weak--and to enlarge the area in which its writ may run.

Finally, to those nations who would make themselves our adversary, we offer not a pledge but a request: that both sides begin anew the quest for peace, before the dark powers of destruction unleashed by science engulf all humanity in planned or accidental self-destruction.

We dare not tempt them with weakness. For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.

But neither can two great and powerful groups of nations take comfort from our present course--both sides overburdened by the cost of modern weapons, both rightly alarmed by the steady spread of the deadly atom, yet both racing to alter that uncertain balance of terror that stays the hand of mankind's final war.

So let us begin anew--remembering on both sides that civility is not a sign of weakness, and sincerity is always subject to proof. Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate.

Let both sides explore what problems unite us instead of belaboring those problems which divide us.

Let both sides, for the first time, formulate serious and precise proposals for the inspection and control of arms--and bring the absolute power to destroy other nations under the absolute control of all nations.

Let both sides seek to invoke the wonders of science instead of its terrors. Together let us explore the stars, conquer the deserts, eradicate disease, tap the ocean depths and encourage the arts and commerce.

Let both sides unite to heed in all corners of the earth the command of Isaiah--to "undo the heavy burdens . . . (and) let the oppressed go free."

And if a beachhead of cooperation may push back the jungle of suspicion, let both sides join in creating a new endeavor, not a new balance of power, but a new world of law, where the strong are just and the weak secure and the peace preserved.

All this will not be finished in the first one hundred days. Nor will it be finished in the first one thousand days, nor in the life of this Administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin.

In your hands, my fellow citizens, more than mine, will rest the final success or failure of our course. Since this country was founded, each generation of Americans has been summoned to give testimony to its national loyalty. The graves of young Americans who answered the call to service surround the globe.

Now the trumpet summons us again--not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need--not as a call to battle, though embattled we are-- but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation"--a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease and war itself.

Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?

In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility--I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it--and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.

[GonzoStyle]

the economy has a headcold

hedcold!

[HedCold]

i didn't do it

[Sir O]

Twice I had a nice, long reply written out only to get booted. It's too late for me to say everything I wanted to, but I'll just make one quick point for now: If we're going to use quarterly GDP growth as evidence of economic strength, then we may as well learn whatever we can from the policies of that evil commie Jimmy Carter.

1977 Q2: 8.1% GDP growth

1978 Q2: 16.7% GDP growth

Or, maybe we can do better than to google "gdp growth" and post the first result that supports the argument we're trying to make (result #8).

[The Jays]

oh snap, son!

[Sir O]

Also, on the actual SOTU speech, a few things:

We need to eliminate steroids from pro sports? Who's idea was that, and why is that more important than say, Osama bin Laden (who Bush never mentioned)?

Reading the letter from 10 year old Ashley was bizarre.

Giving billions of tax dollars to religious charities is not something I want my government to be doing.

When he said that no one can now doubt the word of America, I think his nose grew about 3 feet. The existence of WMD's in Iraq, and evidence of any Al-Qaeda links are still very much in doubt.

[Galt]

Twice I had a nice, long reply written out only to get booted. It's too late for me to say everything I wanted to, but I'll just make one quick point for now: If we're going to use quarterly GDP growth as evidence of economic strength, then we may as well learn whatever we can from the policies of that evil commie Jimmy Carter.

1977 Q2: 8.1% GDP growth

1978 Q2: 16.7% GDP growth

Or, maybe we can do better than to google "gdp growth" and post the first result that supports the argument we're trying to make (result #8).

That's fantastic. You are aware that the the presidential election was in 1980, right?

Who cares what was going on in '78?

Yes, it was one of the first few results on Google. That was my point. Doesn't make the information less correct. Are you debating the numbers that I put up? Are you still saying that the economy was in fact strong until Bush took office when it was clear that GDP had slowed dramatically well before the election.

[Galt]

My nightly nightly Family Guy episode was a great one: New Year's Eve '99. The apocolypse. I got bored with the state of the union.

[Keyser Soze]

Sir O makes a compelling arguement. Jays just comes off like a Bush lackey.

[Galt]

It's easy to be compelling if you ignore basic facts.

The economy was turning down before Bush took office. I can cite (like he did) personal experience which showed that to be the case. I can also show (like he did not) actual economic facts supporting my thesis. GDP was slowing dramatically, and I would venture to guess that unemployment was also worsening prior to November (and that's even a LAGGING indicator of economic strength)

[Keyser Soze]

I don't doubt that the economy is largely independent of what the president does in some respects but to say that the president has no effect on the economy is ridiculous. We do not live in a socialist society. This is not a planned economy. This is a free market.

The president can do things to try to be a catalyst for the market. It will always be argued who was really responsible for what the ecomony does because it depends on so many factors and their effects may not be seen immediately. Politicians will argue back and forth who really is responsible for the economy.

By and large the president isn't even smart enough to understand what he can do to stimulate the economy outside of what his economic advisors tell him. He is soley interested in what will LOOK good and get him re-elected. The president is a politician, he wants your approval, if tax cuts will please you in the short term and the president is in the first term of his presidency, it may be in his best interest to band aid a problem so he can please you into a second term.

What is important is a plan. What is Bush's long term plan to deal with real economic problems like the bankruptcy of social security which we keep paying for but will never get the chance to cash in on and the massive deficit that our kids will wind up paying for. I don't hear the president coming up with any real answers for these problems, or should I say, his economic advisors arent coming up with them and/or he isnt communicating them to us.