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| Posted By | Discussion Topic: TO BOMB OR NOT TO BOMB? - What's next? | ||||
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| GAYsian | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 4:35 PM |    | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: May. 01  | I NEVER start a thread but I just feel this should be said. The next steps after the World Trade Center bombing Everyone will always remember where they were when those airplanes crashed into and destroyed the World Trade Towers. I was actually underground, in the New York City subway. But I came out in time to see the world that the world in which I had lived my whole life crumbling and burning right before me. A burn that I still feel deep inside of me. We've all seen the footage on TV, but nothing will ever compare to seeing the destruction in person. I felt myself weak at points, barely able to stand. A terrible sadness and anger and fear sweeping over me. But not totally a fear of death or attack… more a fear of change. Like an instinct I knew that the world had just been set on a new path, with the choices of either prolonged and terrible destruction or an opportunity for a new course. For the first couple of days after September 11, I could only think in old terms. My anger made me want to strike a deathblow to all of our national enemies. It allowed me to rationalize and delude myself into thinking that we Americans would be able to somehow keep ourselves safe if we were prepared enough. But all of us know that that's not true. Terrorists are never predictable. They will always find a way around our defenses. An angry, patient, calculating person, with no fear of death should never be under estimated. I realized that if those people had had nuclear weapons, me, my family, and most of my friends would be dead right now. The scariest part is that one day when we least expect it, people like those terrorists will acquire nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction unless… Unless we recognize this incident to be a wake up call. At times it seems like we have two options: If we do nothing then we'll appear weak and encourage more attacks, we will have allowed innocents to have died without retribution, caused a worldwide loss of faith in our nation's leadership, and eventually be an afraid and broken people. If we strike back with our full-force then we'll feel better for a while but appear as bullies willing to sacrifice the innocent to assuage our bruised egos. For every terrorist that we may kill or capture, 10 more will step forward to take their place after seeing our disregard for 'collateral damage'. It's a catch 22 but only by recognizing the new framework of the world can we escape this. Right now, because of our tragedy, we as a nation posses the moral force to steer international policy as we see fit. There are two immediate steps that we can take to make sure we use that force wisely. The first step is to recognize that in a global world, the problems and concerns of all nations are woven together with few boundaries or distinctions. Therefore, nations must be able to work together and cooperate within a framework that allows important decisions to be made swiftly, and cooperation as co-equals on all issues. Right now our government leaders are building a coalition of nations to fight international terrorism. This is a good first step. Through this we can track down these and other terrorist as the criminals that they are. With an international recognition of these people as criminals and not the subjects of an American vendetta, we can avoid creating new terrorists through our actions. Secondly, it is time to re-examine our policies around the world. It is a difficult to think of, but if we only see our side of this argument then we've already doomed our children and ourselves to a grim future. As I tried to understand why people would want to repeatedly commit such violence against us I had to admit to myself that they had to have some type of reasoning. Whether it was a just reasoning or not didn't matter, just that someone was willing to kill themselves and five of their friends to make us suffer. We never question and try to address the reasons why. Its time for us to really examine how we treat other countries and peoples around the world. For example: Why do we send our soldiers to kill over a hundred thousand Iraqi's for oil, but not care about countries that we propped up during the Cold War, and now allow them to collapse into bloody civil wars. If former President Clinton's bombing of the Sudanese pharmaceutical factory was due to an intelligence error, as it has been widely recognized to be, then why won't we simply apologize. Israel is our ally, and especially now, having been challenged by terrorism, we should not and cannot abandon them, but why have we at the same time allowed Palestinians to live in refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan for fifty years. Not five or ten years, but fifty. Four generations: great-grandparents, grandparents, parents, and children. If our goal is to support the state of Israel with millions of dollars, then why not invest some of that money in building infrastructures for these people to ease their suffering (schools, hospitals, roads, clean water, electrical facilities). Why haven't we ever made a deal with Israel to offer the Palestinians compensation for the land they lost when they fled Israel in 1947, or tried to buy them new land in places like nearby Jordan. Instead, we allow them to fester in the desert heat, and we all know what happens to 'A Raisin in the Sun'. Its time for us to have a 'Tabula Rasa' or clean slate with the world. We must re-examine every policy, especially the ones that isolate or punish other countries. American paternalism is outdated. It's not up to us to press our values onto others but up to them to develop in their own societies. We seem to think that the world would we better if much of it was more like us, but lots of people don't want to be like us, and we need to recognize that. The future must be one of co-equals and cooperation not false paternalism. Make no mistake this is a war. But this war must be fought on our terms. By simply reacting to those who did this, we're acting just as they want us to. We cannot act in such a way that increases their support around the world. If we put a dent in their support then we'll begin to cut their legs out from under them. Even through my anger on the day of the Tower attacks I knew that to move forward we would have to examine, understand, and address our attackers' reasons. Because even if we killed every terrorist and destroyed every rogue state in the world, new ones will be born to take their place unless we change the conditions into which they are born. I will stop here. There's a lot more I can say but I really want people to read and respond to all that I have written here. If you're like me, you carried a candle last Friday on our national day of mourning, but now we must decide if that fire we held was one of hope or one of vengeance. If you like what you've read here then email and regular mail this to everyone you know. Make copies and hand it out if you have to. Translate it and send it to people who speak different languages. Talk about it at work and with friends. Write down and send out your own feelings but don't let the message die. Our voices will be heard if we all speak loud enough. This may be one of the most momentous things that we'll ever do. | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 4:37 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | i honestly don't think by attacking Bin Laden and the terrorists that other countries will be angry with us. It's not like England would say "You know what they attacked the bad guys, but they hurt them so let's join the Afghanis." "Drop the Bomb, Exterminate them all"- Colonel Kurtz | ||||
| The Painter 1/2 a bottle of Jack Daniels... it's a cure-all | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 7:37 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Sep. 00 | first; Too many words. People won't read all that. Keep it short and to the point. Second; You're an idoit  | ||||
| Spork | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 7:48 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Yeah, that's what we need, e-mail bombs... Sigh, well I guess the question is - Gaysian did you really write that or just copy it from someone who e-mailed you hoping to get their "message" out to anyone who cares to read it? Regardless, if you don't want to be nuked or chemicaled or biologicaled to death then you better get right on board with Georgie Boy and watch as we rid the world of vermin. Hey, maybe we can give some countries a chance to get on board - the United States, many argued, was late to the war in 1941 when others had been fighting for 2 years. But c'mon - there should be NO question that the right thing to do is go after these futhermuckers, and HARD. Good to see that Bush is going to keep this war largely a SECRET. Keep those greasy, liberal mediafolk out of it to protect our troops, and then when you do speak to them, feed them lies so you can carry on a campaign of disinformation for the enemy!  Thank you to all the brave volunteers who brought us all together as a country, and thank you to those of you brave soldiers who will fight and have fought for our country. We are a free people because of your efforts. | ||||
| GAYsian | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 10:17 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: May. 01 | painter: too long? Learn to read. | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 10:25 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Liberal media lmao. What a bunch of lies. The problem is these terrorist organizations are all over the place hiding in even our country. This is why bombing Afghanistan into oblivion is not the answer because these guys will be in other countries as well. Hopefully places like Egypt(they have dealth with their own fair share of terrorism) and other countries will help in the fight aganist terrorism.  Resident Board Socialist Email me here or IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag Webmaster of the Undergound Unofficial I Hate WhackBagKid Message Board I currently have brought no one into the International | ||||
| fbdlingfrg wow, my name looks odd without 5 lines of type below it in bold and purple and red G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Red Wings Captain Cecil JBA~Remove the Pick & Click NOW! | posted on 09-18-2001 @ 10:35 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote:i think i can speak for painter when i say: shut up, fagget  | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 1:41 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | first off, Gaysian don't insult painter just because you think that you're smarter than him because either a) you wrote a lot or b (the most likely scenerio)) you copied it from someone else. Secondly some people can say the same thing in one sentence that others take four pages to say. who's the smarter person? third, AM is right, they're already in this country and in other countries. if we bomb Afghanistan bin laden won't get hit and while there will be terrorist groups around at least it won't look like we're cowering. and fourthly it's faggot. "Drop the Bomb, Exterminate them all"- Colonel Kurtz This message was edited by IkeaBoy on 9-19-01 @ 1:44 AM | ||||
| Ants in My Pants Billy Prettiest Butterfly in the garden All Blow job poems ©Fez 2002-2003. I'm obsessed with Alkey's penis. | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 1:56 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | "Friggin' fag, you wanna make out or something?" "May God have mercy on their souls, because we won't." | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 1:59 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | "Howdy faggot" "Drop the Bomb, Exterminate them all"- Colonel Kurtz | ||||
| Ants in My Pants Billy Prettiest Butterfly in the garden All Blow job poems ©Fez 2002-2003. I'm obsessed with Alkey's penis. | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 2:04 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | "You're a little bitch. That's right, you're a bitch and I'd bet you'd like to suck it, wouldn't ya?" "May God have mercy on their souls, because we won't." | ||||
| Sluggo667 SLASH's New Buddy, but shhh... I am not allowed to tell anyone. | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 2:05 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | Faegella Sluggo667 | ||||
| GonzoStyle | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 2:44 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | I personally agree with what former defense secratary Robert MacNamara said today. Take out everyone and everything that could pose a threat now and 50 years from now. Take out the entire islamic fundamentalist movement. Those kids celebrating in afghanistan may seen innocent now but they may grow to be the next bin laden. But first we must make sure we have the neccesary equipment and anti=defense powers to keep our soil safe from any retaliations to our strikes in the middle east. I doubt you will see ground forces like we did in vietnam to the point we need to install a draft. i see massive sea and air strikes then land troops will be special forces mostly seals to go in and take out ground cells with other special forces teams such as green berets and bombers. Then with any ground war with army and marines will be small where our reserves will be enough since the afghan army is nothing. I am not saying target civillian sites so AM don't get on my case, lol. But the country must be overthrown. If in 1962 a missle left cuba for the states we would strom in and overthrow castro forcefully. We must do a clean sweep don't even give em the time to blink. I also trust pakistan as much as i would trust howard is i was O&A, they supported Afghanistan all these years and the Taliban. They are now only running scared because they don't want to be targeted. But as i said use their air space first to take down afghanisatn. Beyond that Iraq should be taken care of and finish what we didn't finish a decade ago.  "For all we have and are, for all our children's fate, stand up and take the war, the Hun is at the gate!" --- Rudyard Kipling She-Mail Me Here | ||||
| GonzoStyle | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 2:45 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | Ohh and Gaysian trust me i have the highest level of respect for the painter he is a very smart and wise old man, lol well not too old. But i agree with Painter 100% you trully are an idiot and uneducated people who want to come off like they are the next Eisenhower or Montgomery make me sick. "For all we have and are, for all our children's fate, stand up and take the war, the Hun is at the gate!" --- Rudyard Kipling She-Mail Me Here | ||||
| The Painter 1/2 a bottle of Jack Daniels... it's a cure-all | posted on 09-19-2001 @ 6:39 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:Much better. Short and to the point. It's interesting the word justice does not appear in your rant. You (or whoever wrote this) contradict yourself a few times. One thing you don't seem to understand. These people (terrorists and their associates) do not want to co-exist with us. They have one goal, the death of America and Americans. This message was edited by The Painter on 9-19-01 @ 6:41 AM | ||||
| 2 tired 2 give N F One of the Teen Tomatoe Boys is Retarted... Guess which one I am!!! | posted on 09-20-2001 @ 8:06 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,0,0" WIDTH=250 HEIGHT=250> "As I sail through the night... Let us not forget, There is hope..." | ||||
| o&aswallow | posted on 09-20-2001 @ 8:28 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Gah Damn, half of the teen tomato is growing up. Nice. Oh yeah GAAYsian, stick to writting your thoughts of the proper methods of comming out of, or better yet, going back into, the closet.  Before you meet Allah, get ready to meet some good old American whoop ass. American Patriot, Pennsylvania resident, but original NYC listener. | ||||
| sykopathchik Hey... Buckaroo! Yes, everyone knows I type in a unique manner. No need to comment. | posted on 09-20-2001 @ 6:58 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 01 | UHmM StompS on Cig ... quote:nicEE i agreee too effing loong damiit All i GOt to say IS to WAR WE GO DAMIIT BOMBS AWAY *** thread is to bomB or noT ... soOo *SHURgS* BOMB DAMIIT  | ||||
| GonzoStyle | posted on 09-20-2001 @ 11:02 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | quote: Is unicron on a suicide trip again? "For all we have and are, for all our children's fate, stand up and take the war, the Hun is at the gate!" --- Rudyard Kipling She-Mail Me Here | ||||
Displaying 1-19 of 19 messages in this thread. |