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Alabama is preparing to remove a Ten Commandments monument from their state judicial building, but a the state's chief justice has been trying to block it.

A judge. A FUCKING JUDGE!

Isn't there supposed to be a separation of church and state here? Should the TOP judge in a state be saying things like:

Quote:\"The issue is: can the state acknowledge God?\" he said. If this state can't acknowledge God then other states can't. ... And eventually, the United States of America ... will not be able to acknowledge the very source of our rights and liberties and the very source of our law. ...

\"When a court order departs from the law and tells you what you can think and who you can believe in,\" he said, the judge issuing that order is \"telling you to violate your oath. And he can't do that. Judges simply don't have that power.\"

Insanity, I say.

And while we're on the subject of church in the courtroom.... in order to testify in court, they have you place your hand on a BIBLE, and swear to tell the truth, so help you god.

If I don't believe in god, can I lie in court without the fear of perjury? After all, I'm breaking an oath I didn't really make. Or is there some special oath specifically for atheists, agnostics, satanists, whatever?

Though I love debating beliefs, this isn't really about that - it's about whether it belongs anywhere near our legal system.... I say no.

Since when is a sculpture a church?
Or a religion for that matter?

Through all the loud rhetoric, there is a valid point to be made about what exactly does the separation of church and state mean, and how far should it go.
There is no actual demand of a "separation of church and state" explicitly. The actual turn of phrase was coined by Jefferson- who was known to hold church services in the chambers of the Supreme Court and did not believe religion should be completely removed from all "public" functions.

Moore has a point. The oath he swore when he took office , as well as the constitution of the state he's beholden to, has God in it. That's what he refers to.

Personally, as someone who's not religious, I think it's a public art issue. If it can be demanded that public funds pay for "Piss Christ" and that elephant dung cross to be displayed, I don't see the issue with displaying this as well. It's certainly not keeping anyone from believing whatver they believe.

-Jim

The whole "separation of church and state" arguement was founded that the would be no sanctioned religion by the government. Mind you, atheism IS a religion.

Right, no sanctioned religion.
But that doesn't necessarily have to mean push out all religion or eliminate all religious displays, does it?
Thus, debate.

-Jim

Why not? What business does it have there?

And how about my example of taking an oath in court? I'd say swearing on a Bible is "sanctioning" a religion. If you were swearing on a stack of Old Testament, New Testament, Koran, and any & every other book that someone twisted into a religion, then maybe I'd buy that a single religion isn't being sanctioned.

The ten commandments are nice and all, but they come from religion - and not every religion, only a select bunch. So basically, by having them up, you single out all other religions or non-religions.

Not to mention, if nothing else, having that up leaves them open to lawsuits by people of different religions, claiming that it's "offensive" or some crap.... so they're covering their asses.

Quote:Originally posted by FollowThisLogic
And how about my example of taking an oath in court? I'd say swearing on a Bible is \"sanctioning\" a religion.

There is no requirement to swear on the bible (buy-bull ) in court.

In fact, in the trial of Marlon Brando's son Christian, when asked, “Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?”, Marlon replied, "No, because I do not believe in god."

He was then given an alternate oath, which I believe just says "Do you promise to tell the truth as required of you by the laws of the United States Of America," or something along those lines.

Quote:Why not? What business does it have there?

Well, why doesn't it have business there?

Quote:And how about my example of taking an oath in court?

I ignored it, b/c like SO pointed out, there is no such requirement anymore.

Quote:. So basically, by having them up, you single out all other religions or non-religions.

How so? It's a simple display at worst. Not a declaration of "all we hold near and dear to the exclusion of all others." Remember, it's just a statue outside the court. It's not a statement of policy. The policy of the judge is gonna be carried out whether the rock is there or not.
I still assert it's a public art issue...

-Jim

Since most of you probably don't even know them, here they are;

1. Have no other gods before me [the God of the Hebrews].
2. Make no images of anything in heaven, earth or the sea, and do not worship or labor for them.
3. Do not vainly use the name of your God [the God of the Hebrews].
4. Do no work on the seventh day of the week.
5. Honor your parents.
6. Do not kill.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not give false testimony against another.
10. Do not desire another's wife or anything that belongs to another.

If you get rid of #1 and #2 and possibly #10, the rest are all laws in this country. Should all these laws be eliminated, because they were religious laws before they were man's law? If you are an atheist, do you still have to abide by these laws? If so, atheists could lie, cheat, steal, and kill without repercussions. The separation of church and state simply meant, NO Official State sanctioned religion. By the way there are several versions of the 10 commandments, so exactly which religion do they sanction? God is in, or on, several official government documents. Look in your wallet, it's on your money. Just so you know the 10 Commandments are in the Supreme Court of The United States. Displayed for all to see. The Supreme Court also starts each session with a prayer. This whole thing is much ado about nothing.

Wookie, a question:

If I were to become mayor of the town in which you live, and decided to post the Eleven Satanic Rules Of The Earth in front of the courthouse, would you object?

I like #8. We should all live by that one.