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 Displaying 26-50 of 101 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: The issue of God | ||||
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| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 9:30 AM |    | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01  | Nobody's pushing anything down anyone's throats, Maynard. She brought up religion, I jumped on it. I don't start posts on religion, I don't have a public access TV show with stadiums filled with zombies so I can hock my "Jesus Love Me" t-shirts and "Praise be him" coffee mugs. You know what, maybe I am preaching...maybe someone SHOULD preach about the reality of things. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat   | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 9:34 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | You say you pray to God he hears you. Then you agree with Gonzo that people control themselves, as many of the Judaic religions (and yes, all forms of Christianity count) believe. Do you see a problem with this? If humans control themselves, why pray to God to control them? Aren't you going against your OWN beliefs? You pray people to be safe, to be unhurt, but you just told me that it's the people that would control that anyway, so what are you praying for? To fully believe in religion, you have to completely give up all senses of logic and reason, because they have no place in religion. Also the word "contradiction" does not exist, because religion is full of it and they don't even want to know it. Jeff is DEAD-ON when he talks about the game of "Grapevine". The Bible has been edited so many times, you can't imagine. Sure, the message is still the same, but the ways of delivering it have changed. The Bible is a book. A book that gives people hope, something to look forward to. Can you honestly, with 100% certainty and perhaps some proof, tell me that this book is NON-FICTION? The answer is no. No one can. You can't prove that it's fiction either, really, but think of a scenario... A book comes out. A great book. One that people can't put down. This book is just incredible. And it gives people hope. Hope that maybe after you die, you'll be better off than when you were alive. Hope that something greater exists, and that he helps you. People then take this hope, and engulf themselves in it. It starts with a few people. They like this feeling of hope so much that their minds just really want to think it exists. These people become the radicals of their time. They believe, and everyone else thinks they've just gone bonkers. But they grow. Their numbers start to swell. Why? Because more and more people are starting to like the idea that after you die, good stuff happens. More people like the idea that they can ask an invisible force for help and they will get it. Then something happens. These people reproduce. Their children are brought up with these same beliefs. Only the children are different - they know nothing else. So instead of convincing themselves that this is true, the children know no better, and just KNOW that it's true. Perhaps some of them learn the truth, that this all came from one book. But having lived with their beliefs so long, from birth, they can ignore that fact. Then THEIR children are brought up with the same beliefs, and the second generation never tells the third that the book was simply fiction, because they don't want their children to have any chance of not believing in the book. As the generations pass, more and more people believe. The book that started as fiction is generally accepted as fact. Why? Well, if so many people believe it's true, it's gotta be, right? One huge delusion, cause by a bunch of nutsy folks who couldn't just accept that their lives are shit and only they are in control of it. This message was edited by FollowThisLogic on 9-13-01 @ 9:37 AM | ||||
| MaynardGKrebs | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 9:56 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jan. 01 | That is entirely possible FTL. In fact, that is an argument I have made in the past. BUT......by only having the one view, you are being naive. Is your scenario possible? Of course, in fact, I happen to partially believe in it. Is it also possible that the Bible is 100% true? Of course. No one can prove, nor disprove the Bible yet. So let me ask you this....Are you trying to take away people's hope by posting this? Or are you just stating your opinion and view of it? If someone wants to have faith that a lucky quarter, or rabbits foot, or pair of socks is what helps them to win games or make it through each day, then who are we to stop them from that? I happen to applaud them for that. I WISH I had the faith that some of these people do. If it makes their life happier then that is their constitutional right. Remember......as Americans we have the right to free speach, BUT...we also have the right to carry on our religious beliefs without intereference. Whatever they may be. | ||||
| spitfire421 | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 10:04 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Dec. 00 | As long as it gets people through times like these, what is the problem? The thought that G-d is there, maybe trying to protect you, is a comforting notion. People always run toward religion in times like these...it's not hurting anyone to pray, it's actually helping them...So be it. I'm a recovered Catholic, and similarly to what FN Moron said, I'm just praying to someone for the first time in 10 years, I'm not sure who this person is, but being an agnostic who won't completely discount that there isn't a G-d, however unlikely the possiblity--- I'm just hoping that someone is listening. Because things are going to get worse I fear...  We Have Not YetBegun To Fight | ||||
| Sephiroth | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 10:13 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Dec. 00 | I Dunno, i have mixed feelings about God. I believe that there is some sort of higher power, but i refuse to believe that the Catholic church is the only way to meet God. I dont think my faith in God itself has ever really been shaken, but i dont respect the church at all. I really dont want to spout occasions and whatnot, but i believe that the way things are taught in the church amount almost to brainwashing. The constant threat of damnation to hell while trying to teach anything, from basic theological history to morals and principals seem to go hand in hand. They quote the bible ad naseuam to re-inforce their views, neglecting to mention the fact that it was the Catholic church that decided which books would be put into the bible (The Council of Trent). I Dont know, they just seem very hypocritical and arrogant. | ||||
| TheGooch Mullet Master Yo Gooch, Moron here... how's that for some fucked up shit... Fez is giving you status... Karma sucks, huh? | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 10:19 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | The problem is not religon. The problem is belief...and man's propensity to feel the need to kill over belief. As for "orgnaized religon", I put no faith into something that is merely a control device for the masses. I think the Bible's stories are just that...stories. Adam & Eve is actually based on an ancient story in India. Most of Islam, Judism and Christianity are mixes of the many religons and ancient tales that got mixed up during the Persian empires long, long ago. Christianity has many similiarites to the Indian religon of Zorastor (the fire god). And look at close the relgions are to themselves. It ain't coincedence they all revolve around Jerusalem. Christmas celebrates the birth of Christ...but Christ died in March. You know why, b/c Christianity was picking up and keeping the old Solstice holiday of celebrating the Sun which was on Dec. 25th. Everytime you celebrate Christmas, you are really celebrating a pagan holiday meant for the Sun. So, I think we need to take some of our "beliefs" witha few grains of salt. But, the world "divine" means something we cannot explain. Something beyond our understanding. Yet, time and time again, we and our religons try to sit and explain everything. Do I beleive in divinity...that there are things beyond what I understand...absolutely. But, as each religon tries to classify this divinity...it is almost hereasy. Don't blame god...because I think none of us really have a clear concept what god really is. Blame Man...and blame deep-rooted beliefs that make Man kill Man (as Cain killed Abel), all due to the shortcomings in our selves.  | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 11:12 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | Personally I don't believe in God. When I blame God for what happned with WTC the blame neither the existence of God or the lack of God I blame the beleif in God. The fanatical belief in Allah and their religion's notion that commiting suicide for your beliefs during a "war" will get you 70 virgins and a place in heaven. And this "war" is religion based because they feel as if their holy land is theirs and will do anything they can to get it back because Allah stepped on a rock and flew to heaven. As for praying, sure you get no results which leads to people believing they aren't praying hard enough which is why poor people will give 90% of their earnings to a televangelist because they believe he has the power of God in his fingers. Human's made up God. God's faults are our fault. God's Bible is written by men with an agenda. Why religion? becuse we're dead a whole lot longer than we're alive and if there's a man in the sky making sure you behave and if you do you get a palace and if you don't you get a pitchfork you can get a lot more people to follow your rules. | ||||
| SmashNGrab G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Stone of Jordan SR&R Team | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 11:22 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: May. 01 | Don't blame god...because I think none of us really have a clear concept what god really is. Blame Man...and blame deep-rooted beliefs that make Man kill Man Couldn't have said it better Gooch....God/religion is an excuse for people to do what they do. "God made me do it" "For the grace of Allah" and all that other crap. It allows people to jutify and not accept the responsibility of their actions if they do it "in the name of {insert religous idol's name here} ". IMO, God or whoever does not make anyone do anything. We all have a little something called FREEWILL. We all have the opportunity to choose right or wrong, good or evil. Therefore, there is no issue of God in this sense. End of discussion. "May God have mercy on their souls, because we won't.†- Senator John McCain | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 11:39 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: That's the thing. There's no proof either way - and until there is, I'm agnostic. Of course my post sounds 100% atheist, but make no mistake about it, I'm not 100% in either direction. (I'll say it before anyone... "isolate that".) There very well could be a God, but until he pokes his head down from the clouds and shoots lightning from his fingers to say hi, I'm not going to blindly accept the fact that he exists. I'm not closed to the fact that he exists, but there is zero proof. My mind has always been inclined towards logic - science and math were my strong points in school... part of the reason I chose the name I chose here. Religion truly is the opiate of the masses though. If you think about it, religion is a bedtime story you tell children (or all people) to make them be good. Think about another bedtime story.... Santa Claus - be good all year round, or else you won't get any presents, you'll get a lump of coal. Religion - be good for your entire life, or else you won't go to heaven, you'll go to hell. | ||||
| MaynardGKrebs | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 11:54 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: Why is that? Because you state your opinion and there can't be anyone else that has anything to say? | ||||
King Shit *board owner* | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 11:58 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Feb. 01 | Religion is man's worst invention. I have often said this. I really don't want to get into a theological debate, I'm in no mood for it, but I will simply state I am a devout atheist and so far as I am concerned religion is a poison for humanity and there is no such thing as a god. Is my train in vain, has my soul gone to waste Am I just a victim of, a victim of my lost faith | ||||
| The Painter 1/2 a bottle of Jack Daniels... it's a cure-all | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 12:02 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:Bingo  | ||||
| SmashNGrab G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Stone of Jordan SR&R Team | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 12:12 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: May. 01 | Maynard, everyone can have an opinion, but God has nothing to do with this. There is no issue of God when it comes to the WTC and the Pentagon. There is an issue of good and evil, not God. Religion is a personal feeling and belief. I am not up here telling anyone that they are wrong for feeling the way they do, but lets face facts. God did not steer those planes into their targets, MEN did. I am sick of people using God as a crutch, an excuse, a reason to do unspeakable things. In that respect, end of discussion. "May God have mercy on their souls, because we won't.†- Senator John McCain | ||||
| Sluggo667 SLASH's New Buddy, but shhh... I am not allowed to tell anyone. | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 12:23 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Apr. 01 | I myself,am agnostic... I feel that, if there is a "GOD"... He...She...It...Just wants people to live GOOD and LOVING Lives... If there is some kind of "Heaven", All you need to do is try your best to not cause pain and heartache for other human beings... Help others when you have the opportunity to... Live a good life for you and others... Your goodness will not go un-noticed... I was raised in a very Catholic home,and,to quote Ian Anderson... I believe, if there is a "GOD"... "He's not the kind you have to wind up on sunday" I'm sorry if this rambled and didn't make sense... I have alot of shit going through my head right now... As I'm sure you all do too.  Sluggo667 | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 12:35 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Jeff, Land has been a source of division and strife for centuries, too. Killing tens of millions of people. Should we take away land rights and turn everything into a socialist state? People have fought and died for many different things. Hilter certainly didnt kill millions of Jews for some grand religious purpose. People have, and always will. find excuses to kill people. That DOES NOT give you the right to call religion a "disease" because you do not believe in it. And these posts are pointless since atheists will simply jump up and down about all the killing done in the name of God and point to that as a reason to end religion. Lets not discuss it at all. It is pointless. | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 12:48 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | "Religion is man's worst invention" Yeah, something that helps people deal with and face their own and other people's deaths. Yeah, your right Froy, that's a horrible invention. More people died in WWII than in EVERY religious war in HISTORY, so lets not go there. You atheists dont wanna believe in God or religion? Fine. 99.999% of us religious folks have no problem with that. But do not spit in our faces about it. It is simply disrepectful. | ||||
| MaynardGKrebs | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 1:12 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Jan. 01 | No SmashNGrab, this discussion, as I said before, is NOT FUCKING OVER. If you don't like it then fuck off.quote: BTW, her original post was asking OTHER PEOPLE not to say FU to God. She wasn't saying that God did or did not do this. She was merely asking people not to say FU. | ||||
| SmashNGrab G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Stone of Jordan SR&R Team | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 1:20 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: May. 01 | Maynard There is no reason to tell me to fuck off. If you want to have an intelligent discussion on this, telling me to fuck off is a way to devalue whatever it is you want to say. No need to insult me. I am not saying to end the thread. I am not telling people to stop voicing their opinions. "End of discussion" is not meant in a literal sense, more like a figure of speech. I am sorry if you misinterpreted. And as to the original post, please take a look at the last line of it. "May God have mercy on their souls, because we won't.†- Senator John McCain | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 1:58 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | quote: You're just assuming there there AREN'T any results-- If you don't believe in God, you're obviously not LOOKING for anwswers-- Sometimes, the answer is NO. Sometimes, the answer is just God calming you down, giving you strength to carry on. quote: You're looking at the ways that humans USE and ABUSE religion and OTHER PEOPLE'S VULNERABILITUES. You're not talking about GOD. You've pointed out what I've pointed out. There are stupid, selfish, manipulative people out there. They use God for their own selfishness. Those aren't the people I defend. I'm defending my, and other's, right to come here, share their experiences, their pain, and not have to see or hear people say "This proves God doesn't exist." What kind of statement is that? What does it solve? Who does it help? It's a usless statement. God or no God, I haven't given up hope that tomorrow will be better, and then the day after that, better. If God gives me the strength to say "I will work harder to make today better for others," where is the harm in believing? quote: I'm praying for the things that man has yet to posses within himself. Right now, people need courage and strength, they need insight, and reason. They need control and confidence. Right now, people need help. I am praying that that help comes, that people will find IN THEMSELVES the energy, the goodness, to not give up the fight against evilness. quote: With all due respect to followers of Islam, this is not my God. Islam doesn't teach this kind of thing, not in the way it is represented in the media. Much like the bible, the words are twisted and misinterpreted. The point being, the god those terrorists followed was not my god. It was a god that they formed to their ideals, which differ from mine. What if man DID invent God? I believe that if we did, we created a being with all the wonderful qualities that we wish we possessed. If man creates god, he creates god to serve him. And that god that has been formed can be reshaped and remolded. That god can be manipulated. But I also believe that my God, the God I believe to be the only God, the only God I know so closely that I feel I can speak about here, my God created me in HIS image, and he works through me when I open myself to Him. People can keep God out of their lives. They really can. Is this power over God? Or defeat of oneself? quote: I've never prayed to Santa Claus. You know, my parents can punish me HERE ON THIS EARTH. In other words, if I want to FEAR something, I'll fear what can happen to me NOW, what I KNOW can happen to me. I don't fear God. I trust Him too much. God will not fail me, and I will not fail Him. He will always return to me, and I will always return to Him. quote: *nods in agreement* quote: Thank you so much for what you've said. These are the basis of my beliefs. I belive that religion and spirituality are two different things, and God is what connects the two. Thank you ALL so much for talking about this. Even if I disagree with you, I want to hear from you. This is more than I ever expected from my one post- I thought it would be glossed over. THANK YOU for taking this seriously. "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 4:37 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | When you were a child, you believed in Santa. Even if you personally didn't, many do. That's just semantics - this isn't a personal attack, just a point being made. Santa was a belief instilled by by people you look up to - your parents. Religion was instilled in you by these same people - parents - plus others you look up to... priests and such. When you believe in Santa, you know that if you are good, you get presents. When you believe in God, you know that if you are good, you go to heaven. If you ever sat on Santa's lap and told him what you want for Christmas, sorry to break it to you, but that is what you do when you pray to God. You might personally find a more spiritual meaning NOW, but when you were a child, it boils down to the same thing. You are asking this big guy that you believe in, to do something for you. Just because you found definitive proof that Santa was just a bullshit story, that just means you don't believe in him anymore. When you were young though, you did. If it was somehow proven that God didn't exist.... definite proof that NO ONE could deny.... would you shrug it off in the same way? | ||||
| Mrs. Moosen You think Flock is the real mod? Ha! Think again. USA | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 5:02 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | quote: I agree that secular religion in and of itself is bad and gives a cause to extremists. I also believe however that being spiritual is different. Having your own beliefs and not belonging to a denomination is different than belonging to a congregation, which to some would be considered a cult. I understand the arguments being made here, and do feel that using God as an excuse for hate is wrong. But how can looking to God for virtues such as strength, healing, love, wisdom, compassion, etc. be wrong? | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 5:31 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:I'm not saying that all Islams will bomb anywhere to get into heaven. I'm not saying all Islams follow this belief. But a small faction can change everything. It could be a teeny minority of Islams who follow the "70 virgin" rule but that minority will kill thousands because a) they'll get honor in this life and b) they'll get super honor in the afterlife. Like many religions people re-interpret the rules to their own advantage and if some guy has a grudge against America and promises this, they will do it no questions asked. I have nothing against Islams...except those who can do shit like this. "Drop the Bomb, Exterminate them all"- Colonel Kurtz | ||||
| fbdlingfrg wow, my name looks odd without 5 lines of type below it in bold and purple and red G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Red Wings Captain Cecil JBA~Remove the Pick & Click NOW! | posted on 09-13-2001 @ 5:46 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | i have belived in God all my life.my parents take me to church almost every week, i;m in my 12th year of catholic schooling, and (this can possibly cause me to be made fun of a lot) i am an altar server.this even has caused me to question my faith, and i'm still thinking about all this.my feelings are like the hebrews in the babaloyninan exile.they lost thier faith, and the people of babalyon conqored and exiled them.the faithful were made slaves, and the weak of heart were exalted by they new rulers.but in the end, God will deliver us from evil.they questioned their faith, but in the end, God saced them.even though my faith in the church itself had been lowering recently, and is almost gone now, i still belive God is there, and He still cares for us | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 9:38 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | quote: I don't want to stop them. I want to stop the people that say "you can't live without this rabbit foot", "if you don't believe in this rabbit foot, you are going to this awful place", "my kind of rabbit foot is the only true kind of rabbit foot", and "buy my rabbit foot chains and t-shirts". quote: I disagree. Debate is never pointless. Blind faith is pointless. You learn through questioning ideas, changing them, adapting them to the times. I'm not going to debate the point that people kill for reasons other than religion. The point is moot and irrelevant. There has been enough death and destruction in the name of religion throughout history to justify the arguement of religion. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat | ||||
| Kid Afrika | posted on 09-14-2001 @ 11:35 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | In the Matrix, Neo said of "fate" that he didn't believe in it because he didn't like the idea that his life was not under his control. This is much the way that I feel about religion. To buy into religion is to believe that God can and will take you when and where he/she wants to. It is saying that you do not have control over your own destiny, but instead that God has your path established for you. I say, pfooey!! I make the decisions in my life. I react to things that directly affect me. I will not lay in wait to see what "God" has in store for me. Instead, I will make the strides I see fit to make of my life what I want. Religion makes decisions for people who don't have to personal fortitude to make the decisions on their own. However, I do feel that if religion makes you a better person, or a happy person, more power to you. Just don't push your beliefs on me or condemn others because the don't agree.
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Displaying 26-50 of 101 messages in this thread. |