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Displaying 76-91 of 91 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: Call them cowards | ||||
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| slap nut | posted on 03-17-2002 @ 1:13 AM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01  | Did we need to go to war?? Yes. And I'm happy we went to war becuase of 9/11?? Hell yeah, I am all for the war and I am a liberal by the way. However if we think that just bombing the hell out of everyone is going to solve our problems you are sadly mistaken. As Ikea Boy said we have to have some kind of strategy. Bombing the hell out of them will only egt us so far. Also when we eventually move on to other countries such as Iran and Iraq is not going to be as easy as Afganistan. Most people think well we rolled over the Afagans we will just do the same to Iraq & Iran. Its not going to be that easy. As I said I'm all for the war, but we have to use ourheads and think a bbit instead of just trying to bomb them to shreads. | ||||
| Boodadude | posted on 03-17-2002 @ 2:57 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 01 | Palmice you seem very smart this guy kicked my barstool as he passed me. Was I right to kick his ass as his buddy cried stop? Or maybe I'm just angry because my friend died as a result of the anger a muslim felt of us white oppressors. Hug a tree for jesus I might even help you. What you should be more worried about is your sister. Next time she kisses you so soft on the cheek, The soft rosy cheeks you see have my cum dripping from them | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-17-2002 @ 4:54 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | quote: Now,Magneto, how could I possibly take THAT the wrong way??? All kidding aside, I've taken your advice to heart. As you said, I still get a little too emotional when talking about Sept. 11th, although I question how anyone could talk about such a tragedy and NOT get emotional. In the future, I'll stick to the facts and steer away from the cheap shots. I got into a pissing contest with Monocracy (which if you look at my posts in earlier topics, really isn't like me) because I'm just so sick of people calling anyone who supports America "stupid". If they want to offer their opinions, fine, but why do they always have to put us down when they do it? Why can't they just post without telling us how much amarter they are than everyone else? I'll try to hold my temper in check in the future. Thanks for the advice. "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| Redhead Lover | posted on 03-17-2002 @ 6:52 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Feb. 02 | For Senor Doobie quote: Doobie, pretend these answers came from someone you like 1. Saudi Arabia. While I support most of the actions taken by the US government since Sept. 11th, this is one area I disagree with Bush. To answer your question, Saudi Arabia was not included in the "axis of evil" because Bush wants an "ally" in the Middle East who will still continue to provide the US with oil. I guess we're all supposed to conveniently forget that Osama Bin Laden was originally from Saudi Arabia. And we're also supposed to forget about how, after donating money to New York, the Saudi Prince then turned around and said that America deserved to be attacked on Sept. 11th. A thousand praises for Rudolph Gulliani for refusing to accept the donation after that. Bush wants a "friend" in the Middle East, but friends like Saudi Arabia we don't need. Personally, I don't trust the Saudi government any more than I trust the Iraqi one. 2. The objectives of war. In its simplest form, the main objective is to keep fanatics from getting into planes and crashing into our buildings, killing thousands of innocent civilians. The US invaded Afghanistan to smoke out Bin Laden and his Al-Quieda followers. Now Bush wants to enter very country that may contain Al-Quieda cells and bring down all of the terrorists. We all know capturing very single Al-Quieda member is an impossibility. They're too good at hiding. Right now, how many Al-Quieda cells are still in the US, waiting to strike? I believe another objective of the war is to send out a message to the world governments. Al-Quieda was able to get so effective because it had the support of the Taliban government. The world was watching as we dismantled the Taliban government in a very short time. I know if I were a world leader right now, I wouldn't have anything to do with Al-Quieda, no matter what they were offering. It can be argued that thanks to the war effort, Al-Quieda has less places to hide right now. 3. Oil. Me being the stupid warmonger that I am, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. You seem to be suggesting that the US is refusing to explore alternative energy sources to oil. Recently, Iran has threatened to destroy our oil supply if we attack them. What motivation would the US have to want to remain dependant on oil? If we found an alternative energy source, we could sever more ties with the Middle East (including our "friends" in Saudi Arabia). Plus, if oil was no longer in such demand, the Middle East would lose a lot of the profits they make on oil and would have less money to spend on weapons to kill us with. I would think the US would welcome the possibility to not be so dependant on the Middle East. The only possible motivation I could see would be money. We all know Dick Cheney is quite chummy with the oil industry. However, wouldn't there be money to make off of alternative energy sources? Now, since I've taken the time to address your questions, Doobie, I'd appreciate it if you would answer mine: 1. What do YOU think the US should have done after Sept. 11th? What steps would YOU have taken to protect us against terrorist attacks? 2. When did it become wrong to support your own country? I considered the facts and CHOSE to support the US government. Why does this make me a "mindless sheep"? 3. You seem to have many issues with the US government. Specifically, what goverments do you think are more effective and ethical than the US? Another way to look at this would be to ask what country you would rather be a citizen of right now? 4. Most terrorism seems to have roots in a fanatical interpretation of Islam. So why do the terrorists consider America "evil", when we are one of the few countries that embraces religious diversity? How many other countries can you see a Muslim, a Jew, and a Christian walk side-by-side? "Weaselling is all part of human nature! Weaseling separates us from the animals... except the weasel" - Homer Simpson | ||||
| Magneto | posted on 03-17-2002 @ 12:42 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | Senor_Doobie quote: I apologize. I must have misjudged you. I don't know where I ever got the idea that you were being condescending :rolleyes: As for never calling us stupid, I guess someone must have been impersonating you when you wrote this: quote: or this quote: and let's not forget this quote: In addition, in the same sentence where you tell me you're not personally attacking everyone, you attack Redhead again, which kind of hurts your credibility. For the record, If you read this thread, you'll see Redhead was more than courteous to Palmice. Maybe you should take some time off from bashing him and look a little more closely at what you're doing. I'm not trying to be rude, but I really couldn't care less what you think of me. I'm just trying to point out to you that coming in with an attitude isn't the best way to start up an open discussion. Perhaps you're not doing it intentionally, but your posts feel like a slap in our faces. Again, people aren't answering your questions because they think you're just going to call them idiots anyway. Obviously you have the right to post whatever you want, but if you're going to continue to talk down to us, you really have no right to complain that no one's responding to you. | ||||
| Senor_Doobie | posted on 03-17-2002 @ 6:23 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Oct. 00 | Magneto, You wouldn't be the first to accuse me of arrogance, so I will assume there is credence to your remarks. I apologize and will try not to be such a prick in the future. Arrogance asside, I have finally yielded answers to my questions and would like to address Redhead's replies. Redhead, I apologize to you personally for my disrespect because you took the breadth of it. Now, please let's get back to business: --------------------------------- 1. Saudi Arabia. While I support most of the actions taken by the US government since Sept. 11th, this is one area I disagree with Bush. To answer your question, Saudi Arabia was not included in the "axis of evil" because Bush wants an "ally" in the Middle East who will still continue to provide the US with oil. I guess we're all supposed to conveniently forget that Osama Bin Laden was originally from Saudi Arabia. And we're also supposed to forget about how, after donating money to New York, the Saudi Prince then turned around and said that America deserved to be attacked on Sept. 11th. A thousand praises for Rudolph Gulliani for refusing to accept the donation after that. Bush wants a "friend" in the Middle East, but friends like Saudi Arabia we don't need. Personally, I don't trust the Saudi government any more than I trust the Iraqi one. -------------------------- Most of our "friends" throughout the Middle East and the rest of the third world are terrible regimes, just like the Saudi Arabians. A year ago we were trying to befriend the Taliban, by giving them money for banning the growth of poppies. We did that despite the fact that the Afghans are a starving people, and the Taliban rules over them with an iron fist. The reason for our attempt to befriend the regime that currently keeps us engaged in war, was because of a future plan to run a pipeline from the Caspian Sea, through Afghanistan and into the Indian Ocean. There, boats will be able to take the oil and fuel many parts of Asia. The question is who will control these boats? There are two major bidders in this campaign: the wealthy Americans or the Chinese government? This would also help explain why most of the weapons currently being used by Al Queda fighters are Chinese. ----------------------------------- 2. The objectives of war. In its simplest form, the main objective is to keep fanatics from getting into planes and crashing into our buildings, killing thousands of innocent civilians. The US invaded Afghanistan to smoke out Bin Laden and his Al-Quieda followers. Now Bush wants to enter very country that may contain Al-Quieda cells and bring down all of the terrorists. We all know capturing very single Al-Quieda member is an impossibility. They're too good at hiding. Right now, how many Al-Quieda cells are still in the US, waiting to strike? I believe another objective of the war is to send out a message to the world governments. Al-Quieda was able to get so effective because it had the support of the Taliban government. The world was watching as we dismantled the Taliban government in a very short time. I know if I were a world leader right now, I wouldn't have anything to do with Al-Quieda, no matter what they were offering. It can be argued that thanks to the war effort, Al-Quieda has less places to hide right now. They can no longer hide in Afghanistan, but unfortunately there are many countries who are quite sympathetic to their cause. Basically, the entire third world has seen evidence of our evil. They have watched it bury their children just as we watched reactions to it bury our own. China would be another viable hiding spot for bin Laden. The Chinese certainly don't mind people taking pop shots at our empire, because our destruction would benefit them greatly. Are you ready to go to war with China, if bin Laden is hiding there? We would actually have to use our own soldiers to fight that one. I understand that a large part of our strikes against Afghanistan was for retribution. I will not criticize this reaction because I believe it is pure. Our survival was threatened in a way that we had not ever seen before, and out of that violation came hate, and anger. We must remember that some people see equally horrific events a lot more frequently than we do, and it is often by our own hands. Not just in Afghanistan but throughout the third world. ------------------- 3. Oil. Me being the stupid warmonger that I am, I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you're getting at here. You seem to be suggesting that the US is refusing to explore alternative energy sources to oil. Recently, Iran has threatened to destroy our oil supply if we attack them. What motivation would the US have to want to remain dependant on oil? If we found an alternative energy source, we could sever more ties with the Middle East (including our "friends" in Saudi Arabia). Plus, if oil was no longer in such demand, the Middle East would lose a lot of the profits they make on oil and would have less money to spend on weapons to kill us with. I would think the US would welcome the possibility to not be so dependant on the Middle East. The only possible motivation I could see would be money. We all know Dick Cheney is quite chummy with the oil industry. However, wouldn't there be money to make off of alternative energy sources? ------------------------- Money, indeed, Redhead. Sure there is money to be made with the fuel cell, but not nearly as much as there is on a finite recourse like oil. Fuel for the hydrogen fuel cell could be anything that contains Hydrogen atoms. A popular idea is to use ethynol, which is produced at virtually no cost. It would be nearly impossible to keep the price of fuel down. Bush is trying to encourage car companies to make a hydrogen fuel cell engine that also burns gasoline, because he says that the cost to switch the machinery at gas stations would be too high. As ponderous as this sounds, considering the implications of continuing to use oil, when the potential to end all ties with it is on the horizon, (GM has already built a car that runs on the fuel cell..pity it wasn't on the news but you have to understand the sponsors have so much to lose that it really wouldn't convenience them if the masses knew about it. Oil runs America. Therefore oil runs the world. Unfortunately, things like illiterate, starving peasants getting tired of watching their families die get in the way sometimes. ------------------------------- Now, since I've taken the time to address your questions, Doobie, I'd appreciate it if you would answer mine: 1. What do YOU think the US should have done after Sept. 11th? What steps would YOU have taken to protect us against terrorist attacks? --------------------------- I probably would have attacked the nation I felt was responsible, just as Bush had done. I would have not given money to the airlines, but I would have federalized security until serious changes were made, such as removing the door from the cockpit to the cabin. The money would have gone into investigating fuel cell technology, until we acheive the goal of building a car that runs on an abundant source, like alcohol or water. --------------------------- 2. When did it become wrong to support your own country? I considered the facts and CHOSE to support the US government. Why does this make me a "mindless sheep"? ------------------------------------ It came wrong for me to support my own country when I realized that it is an imperical regime. Where I do not support the current leadership, I do support the ideas and spirit of the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution. I love the idea that truth will govern if given the chance, and look forward to a day when America can finally became what we were told it is in school. ---------------------- 3. You seem to have many issues with the US government. Specifically, what goverments do you think are more effective and ethical than the US? Another way to look at this would be to ask what country you would rather be a citizen of right now? -------------------- I would love to live in the America that can be, rahter than the America that is. We have always been the most recourseful nation on Earth. I believe this is because our flag and ideologies over time have attracted the world's best minds. Money has certainly been a goal as well, but I believe the ideas of our ancestors would ring true to anyone that reads them. Drastic changes to the Constitution have to be made, in order to finally free mankind from the shakles of slavery. Drastic changes in technology, industry, and agriculture over the past two hundred years have made it possible to abolish poverty, and give every person a choise. 4. Most terrorism seems to have roots in a fanatical interpretation of Islam. So why do the terrorists consider America "evil", when we are one of the few countries that embraces religious diversity? How many other countries can you see a Muslim, a Jew, and a Christian walk side-by-side? ----------------------- They do not see that side of America. All that they see is how our overly abundant collection of wealth allows them to die either by starvation or by bullets. They blame us because we stand on their sholdiers and reward them nothing for it. Those that do see the benefits of our society realize that they have to live inside our borders to acheive them, and so they come eagerly to grab onto some of our giant wealth cake. Those that are not eager to leave, starve or take up arms against us, because those are the choices of a desperate man. I'm not saying that the regimes that those people live in are good regimes, because the opposite is true. They are as responsible, or even more so, for the deaths of their people as we are. And so we must try to help those people acheive prosperity. We should not use our military to topple democratic and people governments and allow them to be replaced by tyrants for our own economic benefit. I am not sure how to accomplish the goal of overthrowing those futile governments, but I am aware of how to overthrow our own. We simply stop voting for them. We wait for good people to run and then we vote them in. We will know they are good by the actions they take, and by the words they speak. We will understand that they will not get much media exposure and we will seek them out on our own. We will take our accountability for the state of the world and use our recourses to better it, rather than to ignore it. What does it all mean? | ||||
| slap nut | posted on 03-18-2002 @ 2:32 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jan. 01 | One thing I really disagree with the Bush administratio is what they have done with the ecconomy. First off the huge tax cut was a stupid move. Yes, everyone likes lower taxes, but the VAST majority of the tax cut went to the very wealthy something like 90% went to the top 10% or something retarded like that. Also Bush is spending lots of $$ on the war effort. However he is lowering taxes at the same timeNow I'm no Ecconmics major, but the amount you take in goes down, but the amount you spend goes up thats not a good thing. Svereal things happen. 1. The country goes back into debt like it was during regan's and the elder Bush's presidency. Another thing is much of this money comes from social security. And its coming from the social security that the baby boomers will have gotten, meaning in a few years as the baby boomers reach retirment they will have very little social security because instead of giving them social security Bush decided to cut taxes. As the boomers reach that age they have no income coming in. Also mediacare & medicade have been cut by Bush so they have very little medical coverage. The average baby boomer as they reach retirment age have kids with a family. Who foots the bill for the care for the boomers when they get past retirment age and as they are elderly?? Social Security, medicare, medicaid, however with what Bush is doing that will all be severley cut so it will be their kids who have to worry about the money. And if their kids who have families of their own are middle class they don't have a shot in hell of being able to cover the costs that social security, medicare and medicaid have. Bottom line spending more $$ then you take in. Bad Idea. You end up in debt and have to take $$ from other government programs. It may work ok for now, but down the road your going to get burned big time. When the govt needs as much $$ as possible to fight a war its not the time to lower taxes. This message was edited by slap nut on 3-18-02 @ 2:49 AM | ||||
| palmice | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 3:16 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: back into debt? The United States was a creditor nation from the time it started lending in WW1 up until the early 90s, when it became a debtor nation (on the international scale.) Our current trade deficit is in excess of $400b a year. However: http://www.savingsbonds.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm quote: That is the up to date total debt: Debt securities held by Government accounts is approximately $3.4t and debt securities held by the public about $2.6t. The public debt is ok--that's people investing in the government. The rest is simply diluting our purchasing power while giving tax cuts to the rich. Such is capital-the logic is that it will create more capital expenditures. | ||||
| njstrawberry | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 10:08 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Feb. 01 | All I have to say is, we have gone into another country with a mission of eliminating terrorists. We are commended for this action. Milosevic attempted to eradicate his own country, forget about going into other countries – his own country, of the same thing and he is made into a Monster. Genocide, vast murders, Hitler in the making, all words used to describe Milosevic. So, tell me, when the smoke clears, will the United States be charged with Genocide? Will they have to explain themselves to a worldwide court why they have taken these actions? Will they be held accountable for the unmarked graves?  | ||||
| Fast Freddy Voted Most Likey to The next old thread I bring up officially starts the mods in a race to ban me. Flock wins! | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 10:18 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Mar. 02 | Whoa man, everyone just site back and chill babies, ya like that. Now here, try some of this, youll feel much better....promise  Chubby chicks are eager and that is really cool. Your sister fat? | ||||
| palmice | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 4:20 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Mar. 02 | quote: I'll accept that--my terminology was probably a little radical for such an insular collection of viewpoints. Here's a better way to put it. The media is, as a collective whole-moreso than keeping themselves in the black-concerned with the preservation of the profit system and will not hesitate to whitewash American society to do so, even in the face of empirical fact and the inherent fundamental illogic in the system. Whether you realize it or not, this is am imperial war, reflecting an extension of American interests lest our European or Asian rivals take control over arguably the most strategic region in the world (the Caspian basin) and was long in the planning before September 11. Planes into buildings provided the casus belli for a full-scale war, rather than covert subversion. | ||||
| f-boston | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 8:08 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Oct. 01 | woah.. dick jokes on cnn.. wierd. FUCK Boston, and Anti-American hippies | ||||
This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm I Mod VG's ass! | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 8:20 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote:that's what I was thinking.... anyways... I'd move this discussion, but the Political Debate Forum is full... maybe next time...  | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-19-2002 @ 9:13 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:hey, that supports terrorists. I tried this thread fora while, realized it was pointless.  "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." If you Criticize the Show- you're supporting terrorists. | ||||
This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm I Mod VG's ass! | posted on 03-20-2002 @ 12:09 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote:yet you posted anyway.... | ||||
| IkeaBoy P.L.F. Portugese Liberation Front- Liberating Status' everywhere from the Tyranny of Portugal I will die a traitor's death | posted on 03-20-2002 @ 12:35 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:I never pass up a chance to make a "if you do drugs you support terrorism" comment. "It appears my wee wee has been strucken with rigor mortis." If you Criticize the Show- you're supporting terrorists. | ||||
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