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 Displaying 76-100 of 101 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: The issue of God | ||||
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| GonzoStyle | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 1:21 AM |    | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70  | I didnt wanna get into my beliefs on this one but look, i don't believe in GOD in the biblical sense of in the sense of the torah. I do believe ina higher power that put us here. Believe whatever makes you feel secure believe what is in your heart but stop looking for someone or something to blame. It is easy to point fingers you can blame hundreds of things and people. You can blame everyone from the security of the airport to the person who scanned their bags to the airline to the CIA and Up to and beyond the president and the parents of the hijackers and on and on. But blame will not bring back to thousands of dead.  "For all we have and are, for all our children's fate, stand up and take the war, the Hun is at the gate!" --- Rudyard Kipling May God Have Mercy On thier Souls. Beacuse We Will Not. -- John McCain 9-12-01 She-Mail Me Here | ||||
| katya_ann That's Miss Jesus Cooze to you! | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 2:23 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | I am extreamly upset. It's not anything anyone said or did..... It's the fact that I was JUST about to hit the "post reply" button, and MY COMPUTER CRASHED! I had a wonderfully crafted response, and I LOST IT!!!11 The point was mostly this. How ever you grieve, grieve for your fellow man, greive for your country, and grieve for a loss of innocence. But blaming God does no GOOD. It doesn't bring people closer together, it doesn't bring anyone back. Praying to God doesn't bring people back from the dead, but it helps people cope with loss, which IS important. So, whatever you believe, God exists, God doesn't exist, Good is to blame, God is sitting there laffing at us... Whatever. Just remember that people grieve differently. If God is all someone has right now, why take away that small comfort? Okay, I have to pack, I'm going away for the weekend. Thank you all SOOOOO MUCH for these great comments! quote: Do you have any idea how many times I've thought about editing that line out?! LOL See you all Monday! Remember, by then, more blood will be needed for burn victims! "I'll fly my country's flag outside my home everyday for the rest of my life, even if it's three inches tall and hoisted on a toothpick! GOD BLESS AMERICA!" --My dad | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 11:58 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | FTL, People have seen God and they've written about it too. Its called the Bible. You dont believe in that? But you believe in pictures in a textbook and what scientists tell you because they're scientists? Jeff's arguement was that he does not believe in what he cannot know. My arguement is that there is a ton of stuff you CANNNOT know. Your knowledge of Pluto is third hand. It will always be third hand. The fact that we CANT send someone there will make you BELIEF there IS a Neptune or Pluto third hand. Why is your "pictures" of Pluto more real than my account of God in the Bible? Because scientists took those pictures? Because scientists told you it was there? The Bible told me that God spoke to Moses at Mt. Sinai. I wasnt there, anymore than YOU were there when a satelite took a picture of Pluto, yet you accept Pluto as real to you because you believe the people who tell you its there. And you dont believe the Bible accounts because they're older? Or because they tell more fanatastic stories? Thousands of people HAVE seen God, and the wrote about it, in the Bible. You dont believe those thousands but you do believe the thousands that say they've seen Pluto? You can find a picture of Pluto and tell me, absolutely, that its not a marble photographed next to a black background? A really good CGI effect? | ||||
| Ken'sPen [Sarcasm] Doesn't Live Up To The Hype [/Sarcasm] I should have stayed OVER THERE | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 12:47 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Aug. 01 | Sarcastro, I was in Disney two weeks ago. I'll trade you a picture of me and Pluto for one of you and God. | ||||
| IrishAlkey Chucky Official OA.com Homo CUNT ROCKETTE Look who's laughing now, fuckers!!! Is It In Yet? JYD-4-LIFE [Sarcasm]Subzero316 fan since day one!!1!![/Sarcasm] "my mod powers are on temporary hiatus" This status is sponsored by: P®oJë©T M@¥hέm | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 1:10 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Veteran Registered: Aug. 01 | quote: I'm sorry, but regardless of what I believe this made me laugh my ass off. BTW, you've got a deal if ya throw in a Sammy Sosa rookie card!  | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 6:48 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | I knew a guy in college who looked like Jesus. I think I might have a picture around here somewhere... | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 7:03 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Sarcastro... you're still comparing apples to oranges.quote: If you've read ANY of my previous posts here, that answer is no. As a matter of fact, I gave a very long description at the top of page two, showing how it's possible that the Bible could have been a work of fiction that people just took too seriously and built beliefs around it. Don't be STUPID, dude. If I felt the overwhemling desire and had the means, I could go to one of the larger telescopes and actually SEE Pluto. Hell, I could probably see it with a decent hand-held or tripod-based telescope. As I said before, if I had the means, I COULD GO THERE. It's a real place. It exists. Just because we don't have the means to do so now, doesn't mean we COULD not go there when we do develop the technology. But no matter what, no amount of technology will allow you to go shake God's hand. You will never go meet God, no matter what you invent. Never IN YOUR LIFETIME. Yeah, death doesn't count. You're just being fuckin ridiculous, man. If you want to get philisophical, you can question YOUR OWN existence, forget Pluto or God. The point is I can see Pluto with my own goddamn eyes. And I'll NEVER be able to say the same for God. Neither will you. Ever. Just because Pluto is magnified by lenses doesn't mean it isn't there... lenses simply make the object look bigger to your eyes. If you try to tell me that what I see out of a telescope isn't real then I hope you don't wear glasses or contacts, cause if you are, you're obviously not seeing the real world, just a fake by your own argument. You might be able to say a picture is faked, sure. But if you look and see the thing with your own eyes (with a telescope's help), there's no way to say it's not real unless you're just fucking insane. No telescope will ever let you see God. Ever. And you will never ever be able to prove that the Bible isn't just some book written by good authors. I know another huge series of books.... Star Wars. There are tons of books. But I don't go around believing in the Force.  | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 9:22 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | FTL, Actually, scientists are proving that alot of those stories in the Bible are somewhat historically accurate. So its not complete bullshit. You dont want me to be philosopical in a philosopical discussion? Your entire arguement against God is that you cant see Him or know Him. My arguement is there are plenty of things you cant see or know. Whether that be Pluto, dark matter, quarks or whatever. Pluto is just an example. And, no, being able to see it with a telescope doesnt prove its there. Rainbows are nifty optical effects too, doesnt make them real. How do you know if you got in a spaceship and went to where Pluto is there would BE a Pluto there? You can see something with a telescope, but you cant tell me its necessarily anything more than reflected light from the atmosphere. And Pluto is NOT the point, anyway. Its an example to try to prove a point about faith. About believing in stuff without being entirely sure its there. No, I cant shake God's hand. When are you going to Pluto? Let me know o you can assure me its actually there, cause I really cant tell ya. | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 9:51 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: quote: Wow, that's reassuring. Your scientists who are faking Pluto are saying the Bible is real. Are these the Weekly World News scientists or what? You're the one who said scientists are full of shit, not me. Typical of religion, always full of contradiction. You expect me to believe what you say if YOU deflate YOUR OWN ARGUMENT? Your foot's so far in your fucking mouth that it's tickling your asshole. Just stop already. | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:00 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Actually, I believe in scientists and Pluto. Pluto is an example of an arguement against your notion that because you cant see or know God that he is not real. Im ripping of DesCartes Hoohoo. I brought up scientists finding Noah's arc and other things to counter your arguement that the Bible is just a bunch of stories. Seems some of the stories have some truth to them. My fault for switching between a philosopical arguement and a logical one. The stuff about Pluto is not to suggest that their isnt a Pluto. Its to suggest that you cant prove there is a Pluto any more than I can prove there is a God. It doesnt make either nonexistant. Ill be clearly in the future. | ||||
| fbdlingfrg wow, my name looks odd without 5 lines of type below it in bold and purple and red G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Red Wings Captain Cecil JBA~Remove the Pick & Click NOW! | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:08 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote:DAMN YOU, FTL!!first you go around trying to disprove my religion from birth, but now you're saying my backup doesnt work?STOP ATTACKING MY BELIFES, DAMNIT  | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:08 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | No, I *can* see Pluto, you tool. YOU are the one saying I can't see it. I can see Pluto, and I can't see God. And just because I don't have the technology to go visit Pluto, that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be there if I did go. God, however, will never be anywhere. Build all the technology you want and you can NEVER EVER go visit him. Noah's Ark was found? Last I heard, there were at least five different sites where scientists THINK it MIGHT be. Nothing proven yet. If you're trying to tell me what I can and can't see, then you're turning into a fucking fanatic. Saying that Pluto is just an atmospheric illusion is INSANITY.... Pluto has a definite orbit. A definite place in the sky. If you know where to look for it, you will always find it there. No stupid fucking anomaly can do that. I'm not even talking about proving or disproving God anymore.... I am simply GENIUNELY PISSED OFF that you're using the most INSANE, STUPID ARGUMENT that I have ever had the misfortune to witness in one of these debates. | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:18 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: I'd believe in the Force before God, man. It's still safe. May the Force be with you. | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:25 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Its actually a pretty old arguement by DesCartes. He pretty much proved that NOTHING exists except yourself. "I think therefore I am" meaning because you can think you exist. Other than you, you cant be sure. Neat, huh? Your getting pissed? Im sorry. Im trying to demonstrate something, thats all. Your entire arguement is based on the notion that because you cant know God that it NECESSARILY proves He does not exist. Which is not true. Your getting hung up on the example and missing the point of the example. There are things you cant know that you still believe to exist, whether you see them or not. God is one of those things for me. Not being able to know or understand God is not proof that He doesnt exist, just like not knowing or understanding whats beyond our galaxy proves that there is nothing beyond our galaxy. Just like, before scientists descovered the atom, there WERE atoms. We just didnt know they were there and thus didnt understand the nature of how things stay together or what makes them up. Not knowing something doesnt prove it doesnt exist. Thats the point. Thats the entire point. I dont want you to throw your computer out the window or anything. Star Wars does take place in a galaxy far, far away...hmm. [/Jedi mind trick] You will agree with me....[/Jedi mind trick] And believe me, Im not a fanatic. I just like to argue sometimes. | ||||
| DX-Bitch | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:29 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 01 | Sarcastro: Were you dropped on your head as a child? .....i'm trying to see thngs from your point of view but my head doesn't fit up my ass. all god is, is a "security blanket" for you something to give you hope for better things to happen. hope that your loved oned go to a good peaceul place...you can never prove that there is such a place you can never prove there is a "god"...there maybe a book saying believe in me believe in what i did but until i see some real proof (etc.."god" knocking on my front door...) i will never say there is a "god". | ||||
| The Painter 1/2 a bottle of Jack Daniels... it's a cure-all | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:32 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Sep. 00 | Don't be so quick to put all your faith in science. I once rented a house that had a set of encyclopedia Brittanica from the 1890's in it. Virtually every scientific fact in it was wrong. 100 years from now all the science we know now may be proved wrong. When I was young I was taught that Pluto was a planet, now it's been down graded. It's no longer a planet. I was also taught the Brontosaurus was the largest dinosaur, now they say it never existed. Personally I think I might be a nihilist. Nothing is sacred.  | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:36 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | It has nothing to do with knowing God. I know what he is, what he's all about. What I'm saying is that there is no possibility of physically seeing or touching God, ever. In doing so, God would DISprove his own existence, because without faith he is nothing. If you could touch him, you wouldn't need faith because you'd have proof. That's why you'll never see or touch God. It'll prove he exists. You don't need to have faith in something you can prove because you just know it exists. | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 10:46 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | People HAVE claimed to have seen God throughout history. Many have claimed to have talked to God. Others have claimed to be "inspired" by God, including Joan of Arc. Many of the faithful feel His presence in their life. And after death, we do believe we will all see God. Again, you personally will never go to Pluto, but you believe others and you believe that light you see in the sky is Pluto and you believe others who have sent satelites and taken pictures. For me, the Bible isnt all a big lie. For me, a person escaping a tradegy like the World Trade Center is not just luck. Luck and Fate are the work of God in our lives. Doesnt it ever make you wonder why someone lives and someone else but a few feet away dies? Science will never explain that. Im sure you chalk it up to luck, fate, fortune, blind providence. I chalk it up to it not being their time to die as designated by God. I chalk that up as "evidence" of the divine in our life. I dont expect you or anyone else to believe these things. Im not trying to convert anyone, just trying to defend my own beliefs as best I can. | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 11:21 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Yeah, well David Berkowitz was told by "demons" and a dog to kill people, and he did. He was seen as a nut-job, not a prophet. The WTC terrorists also did what they did in the name of God/Allah. Again, branded as nutcases. Where do you draw the line between nutcase and prophet? And there you go mentioning fate.... a dangerous thing. If you believe that events in your life are pre-planned by God, why pray? Isn't that going against God's plan? If he wants you to do it or have it, it was predetermined..... if you believe in fate. But you pray anyway - what for? God's gonna do what HE wanted you to do.... unless you think you're more important that GOD.... | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-15-2001 @ 11:37 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | The point of bringing fate in the discussion was to point out that we dont decide when we die. Our leaving this life is beyond our control, it is in the hand of God. Thats all. Our every action and every thought is not controlled by God. We have free will. Where do you draw the line between nutcase and prophet? When I say so!! Ever religion has its prophets who have claimed to have recieved the word of God. These terriorists who bombed the WTC did not say they were ordered to by God. They INTERPRETED the word of God to mean that. They read into the Koran that they should kill thousands of people. Millions of other Muslims didnt get that memo. Pretty much all of the Muslim nations, including Iran, have denounced the attack, which might lead you to believe that maybe these guys read it wrong. Understanding a being who is older than time and created everything in the universe is a tough job. And beyond us. It doesnt help that He hasnt come down and given us a tutorial in a couple of hundred years. As to generally interpreting whether someone is a prophet or a nutjob, thats really based on which religion your following. Jesus is just another prophet to Muslims, whereas Christians view Him as God's son. Are Muslims wrong? Yes!! No!! I dont know. Which explains why there are tons of agnostics out there. I understand the contradictions of religion and the artificalness of much of it. But I believe in it, nonetheless. Your right DX-Bitch, I do have my head up my ass. | ||||
| Greed | posted on 09-16-2001 @ 1:01 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | AT post 95, I'm sure no one with bother reading this, but I'm not about to open another topic about it. Forgetting about the debate about whether God is real or not, and if organized religion is partially or wholly to blame for this catsrophe for a second.... It has been reported that the two planes headed for NYC were very close to colliding on their way to NY. Now, if those planes had collided, thus saving the lives of thousands of people, there is no question that countless people (probably myself included to be honest) would be using that event as proof that maybe God does exist. That for a short moment in time, God intervened in an undocumentable case, caused the paths of those two planes to intertwine, and was reponsible for saving thousands of lives. Every religious figure would be using that as proof-positive that there is no question that God does exist. People on the fence would be thinking twice about it. "The whole sky, what are the chances that two planes collide?". Now the planes unfortunately didn't collide. Are the religious people now using that as proof that maybe God doesn't exist? If he could have intervened to make them collide, wouldn't the fact that he "allowed" them to pass mean that maybe he doesn't exist, doesn't have the power, or doesn't care? Finally, Becuase they were close to hitting but didn't, you know that the Islamic people happy about these bombings are use that fact as proof that Allah is great, and more powerful. That Islam is the true religion and Christianity or Judaism are wrong, that there is only wone true God, blah blah blah. That's why religion is such a retarded subject to debate about. It's impossible to debate when there are no facts involved. There's no rationality in mysticism | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-16-2001 @ 1:17 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: Typical religious person, bending reality to fit into the religious ideals in your own mind. quote: First they interpreted that the voices in their heads were God, just like Moses, Muhammed, and any other prophet. Figure it this way. If God existed, there would only be one. Uh oh bud - what if the terrorists happened to pick the right one and YOU have the wrong one? Or maybe the Buddhist god is the right one? And don't even try to say that they're all one in the same God, because they do NOT all have the same moral standards or belief structures. If there was one God in existence, there would probably only be one religion on Earth. So why isn't this the case? Cause God is most likely right in your fucking head. That would mean there are roughly 6 billion Gods on Earth, minus the agnostic and atheist populations. quote: Finally someone that makes sense! | ||||
| GonzoStyle | posted on 09-16-2001 @ 1:51 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 70 | FTL you missed the entire point of this post from hearing what you are saying seems you atheism is deep rooted and you have not believed in god for a long time. This post was created to discuss people who have with recent events given up hope. You can't physically see or touch love you just feel it and know and there are some things you just feel in your heart and you trust them. Don't preach here, because from page one people who have not believed before tuesday should not be posting here. "For all we have and are, for all our children's fate, stand up and take the war, the Hun is at the gate!" --- Rudyard Kipling She-Mail Me Here | ||||
Nay. We are but men. ROCK. The man with the plan. | posted on 09-16-2001 @ 2:03 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | Sounds fine by me, Gonzo - but in all fairness, I didn't start posting in this thread until long after the point of it was lost. I'd be fine and dandy accepting a new thread based on that, and I'd stay out of it. This thread has been kinda defiled to the point of destruction, and I don't think that this...  ...will help. | ||||
| Sarcastro | posted on 09-16-2001 @ 10:24 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Nov. 00 | Firstly, the "When I say so!!" was an attempt at some humor and lightening the dicussion some. I didnt realize you'd use it to show how its "typical" of religious thinking. How Im "bending reality" to my mind. Secondly, where did you read they heard the voice of God in their head? Bin Ladin told them that they should do this for their God, that the Koran says so and they believed HIM. I dont remember where I read that these people heard God Himself tell them to bomb the World Trade Center. That's actually one of those clues that your not hearing God, God doesnt tell people to kill in Hia name. He never has. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, these bombings, done by men who believed they were doing the work of God, totally ignoring the fact that, at least the Chrisitian version, NEVER ADVOCATED VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND. ANY kind. Killing in the name of God is not religion, its murder. And murder, no matter how you slice it, is wrong. Thirdly, why is there more than one religion? Because there is more than one way to understand the infinite and because it has been left to man to interpret alot of what God is, which has left alot to be desired. Im perfectly willing to say that ALL religions could be wrong. But the fact that there are so many of them doesnt prove there isnt a God. It just proves that man has tailored Him to fit his own needs. | ||||
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Displaying 76-100 of 101 messages in this thread. |