The Passion is a movie whic focusses on the last 12 hours of Jesus. It chronicles everything from his betrayal by Judas in the garden, his confrontation and accusations of heresy by Jew leaders, his condemnation by Pilate and his torture and crucifixion.
It is beutifully shot. Cinematically I thought Mel did a good job. He concentrated alot on closeups and facial reactions. There were no really far panned shots and no screen shots which showed depth or anything, but all in all I liked the way it was filmed. The only thing I did have a problem with was the centerpeice of the movie and that was the torture scene. Alls I have to say about it is ....WOW. It was extremely brutal, and sometimes in slow motion too. Im heartless and enjoy some gore in a movie here and there.....but this made me cringe a few times. I feel Gibsons concentration of that scene brought down the flik a notch or 2......but I think he was just trying to get across the point of what "Jesus went through for our sins". The acting is well done. Jim Caveziel puts on a really good performance as Jesus. For some reason I found it hard to look at Monica Bellucci and not think of her as she was in The Matrix.
As for all the anti-semetism crap....yeah...its there. After watching this movie it made me wanna go out and Jew bash. It wasnt as bad as I expected it to be from all the media hype, but I can sorta sympathize with where Jews are coming from with this. Im expecting this movie to be the subject for rabbis and ministers to argue about for a few years.
This is strictly for discussion sakes, this is not a whole belief thing, everyone has their beliefs. This is strictly under that it happened and jesus was infact the son of god, messiah, or messenger.
Well it can ultimately be blamed on either the jews, the romans, or jesus himself or a combo of all 3.
You also gotta take into account this, it's easy to look back and blame them or anyone with the knowlege available after and today. I mean if someone showed up today claiming to be the son of god and king of the jews, he'd be in bellvue, no one would believe him. But go back 2000 years when we werent as caring as a people and you'd be killed as he was.
Jesus was a menace to the high priests of the jewish temples in jerusalem. He threatened their livelihood and their power, so they did want him dead. They tried him on a bunch of trumped up charges and got him on blasphemy for claiming to be the king of the jews and the son of god. But they could not execute him, so they took him before Pilate and he actually found him innocent, he coulda ended it right there and dismissed the case against Jesus... ofcourse his name was not Jesus, His name was Yeshua. But back then the Y was pronounced like the J today so it was Jeshua, it wasn't till long after he was annointed "jesus" probably by constantine who was more responsible for christianity than Yeshua himself.
Either way Pilate found him innocent but the mobs of jews called for his death, wether they were there on their own or rounded up by the high priests and forced is anyones guess but pilate washed his hands literally to symbolize the fact that Jesus' blood would not be on his hands cause he was innocent but did sentence him to death by crucifixtion.
But Jesus knew what he was doing, he knew all his actions would eventually lead to his death. He coulda left jerusalem if he wanted to but he stayed. Before his capture in the forrest he bled from his forehead, which was probably due to the stress and can actually happen under great stress. He said at the last supper that the bread they were eating was his broken body and the wine his spilled blood. He told Judas at the supper to do what he had to do but to do it quickly.
He rode into jerusalem on a donkey and made sure it was a spectacle. The prophecy of the coming of the messiah described him as "riding into the holy land on a donkey". Right then and there he was proclaiming himself the messiah but that wasnt enough to kill him. He made sure to go to jerusalem on the busiest week of the year which was passover when the population doubled in jerusalem for the week, if not tripled. He made a scene in front of the holy temple by accusing the priests, money changers and everyone for being corrupt and threatening that god would destroy the temples and everyone in them.
He knew what he was doing and knew the outcome, he was speeding towards it. It's not right to blame the jews because it wasnt the people, it was the people in charge who wanted him dead cause they were already corrupt. You can blame Pilate but he caved in to the peoples demands, ofcourse its not simple to say if the people were there out of force or not. But Jesus needed to die, he knew he did.
If Jesus had not died, what would be the point? He came to die for the sins of the people, he wouldnt have been ressurected, etc etc. Death made him what he is today, jesus was born and died a hebrew. If he was not crucified christianity may have never existed, he didnt create christianity, he proclaimed himself king of the jews.
I hear Jesus dies at the end.
You also gotta remember that no one actually saw jesus "ressurected". When on the 3rd day he was visited in his tomb, it was simple empty. He didn't rise up in front of the people as depicted in movies. He came to several of his friends in "visions" after that but it coulda been more fuel added by them to the fire, they coulda simply taken his body from the tomb and started this rumor amongst themselves.
It's all shady, it was a completely different time, most people believed anything and everything when it came to this stuff.
and many of these things were written by men born many centuries after the death of jesus whom never knew him or anyone who knew him. jesus left no writings, there is nothing written down by his hand that can be attributed as coming from his mouth. Plus the jews were never a popular group, who better to blame. Even Pilate himself was an admitted anti-semite, what better way to do it than pretend like he didnt wanna kill jesus but "the jews made him do it"
theres no blame if you believe in the christian story that jesus was preordained to die. you can't blame the jews because jesus purpose was for this to happen.
where does free will come into this? i know after the garden of eden was created, man was given free will and sin was born. does this mean the jew had free will or jesus set it all up?
jesus started the baptism to remove original sin thing
I can honestly say that based on what I was taught, I never had any hate for Jews for killing Christ - like Keyser said, I am of the belief that he was born to die, and therefore no blame was ever placed on anyone (except for maybe Pilate, but if anything he was the "bad" guy, not the Romans as a whole).
People are making this out to be a retelling of history - they are forgetting that, while the subject matter may be Biblical and spiritual, it is simply a movie. Whether Gibson set out to jab the Jews or not, it is his vision and should be treated as such. He's not asking for this movie to be considered Canon, but moreso to be looked at as an appreciation for Christ and what he stands for.
I'm not saying people should'nt take offense to it, because I'll bet if Jesus himself made the movie there's be people who would be offended or in disagreement. But to make it like Mel Gibson is trying to lay Christ's death on the Jews, I think that's a stretch.
Granted, I haven't seen the movie, but based on all the crap that I've read I think I've got a pretty good handle on how it plays out.
Another thing, I hear the torture scene is pretty rough - and I'm sure it is. But do people realize that humans at the time were far more barbaric than we are today? There were no guns, no nukes, no chemical gases - back then it was all about getting your hands bloody. I'm sure if the story is true, then Jesus was most certainly beaten to within an inch of his life - which would then mean the torture scene is probably dead on, with respect to the degree of torture inflicted, anyway.
TheGMANN Wrote:As for all the anti-semetism crap....yeah...its there. After watching this movie it made me wanna go out and Jew bash.
you're an idiot
Edited By drusilla on 1077816976
George should go george bashing for watching gigli.
Don't be a fuckin poseur tho and jew bash cause you saw a film, you make the full time hassid haters like me look bad.
Aww boo hoo...the movie makes Jews look bad...who gives a shit?! WW2 movies make the Germans look bad, movies about the American Revolution make the Brits look bad...IT'S ART...IT'S ENTERTAINMENT...if you don't like it...don't watch...all this 'you gotta look out for others feelings' bullshit is communism! Tell me what I can or can't say you pinko commie muther fuckers...burn the Constitution while you're at it.
I haven't seen it but I heard it's great. I just hate Political Correctness...people are too fucking sensitive...
In a related story to PC...I know most people don't like him but Stern got pulled off the air because a caller said NIGGER on the air. Poo Hoo Hoo...Chapelle says that shit 10 times a minute and no one flinches...but cause it was on a WHITE persons show they freaked and pulled him today in over half his markets...
And a blast from the past about PC...Since my arrival to the state of Georgia the state flag has changed 3 times because people don't want the confederate flag as any part of the flag...we deny the state of Georgia's tax paying white people a part of their heritage (regardless of how evil and wrong slavery was it is part of their heritage) because it makes someone uncomfortable...they had their first really influential and generally good black mayor here in ATL recently and on his exit from office they pushed to rename the airport after him as well as former mayor Hartsfield who the airport already was named after...rather than going for a different part of the city they renamed the airport Hartsfield-Jackson Intl Airport which just is stupid...who cares if he was good...if he was so good then he deserves his own shit named after him...bleh I'm done bitchin now I think...
If I was a jew I'd have a t-shirt that said "God Killer" on it.
You really can't compare this to the holocaust, one jew to 6 million jews doesn't balance out.
I've learned more about jesus in the past few days than I ever wanted to.
The Romans invented. The Germans perfected.
If you boil down to it, jesus was nothing more than a beatnik with too many expectations from his dad, who knew a couple magic tricks and had a death wish.
I can just see Judas' face when Jesus holds up the cup at the Last Supper and tells everyone it's his blood. Judas was like, "Waiter! Check, please!"
Quote:George should go george bashing for watching gigli.
Lush had the idea of staying in,drinking and watching bad movies.
That was the MOTHER of all bad movies.
You should have done coke, drank each other's blood and fucked like wild mohicans on the hard wood floor instead.
Then crucified eachother.
I have not seen the movie, but from what I have read and learned about the last hours of Christ, the Jews that hated him were the high priests, and they hated him because they were threatened by his very demeanor and his ability to influence others. In the Gospels, the others that call for his death vary in size, from a small group of people to a mob, the size growing from the earliest written gospel to the book of John, and the reasons to even have the crowd grow in size was because the Christian faith was struggling against other religions; and the Gospels were written to spread the Good News. So, they probably stretched the truth, and threw in a lil "Jews killed Christ" and, biggity bam! Converts!
But, it doesnt even matter who killed Christ in the end, because if you do believe in His word, a) he was prophesized to die for man's sins, and b) his message included forgiving and loving your fellow man, no matter what they do.
The Nicene Creed sums up what Catholics believe. Anyone who goes looking for Anti-Semitism is just looking for stuff to bitch about and be hateful.
Quote:We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.