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Displaying 76-92 of 92 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: Let's bring the debate here | ||||
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| FaithLess Listener | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 4:35 PM |    | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jun. 01  | quote: This is very curious reasoning. You are really going to try and say that because an animal MIGHT suffer a violent death in the wild it is ok for US to make them suffer whenever we please? I'll take my chances in the wild rather than having someone shot an arrow through my neck now. quote: Everyone will agree that if it is necesary to feed one's family, oneself or any other human being, killing an animal is an appropriate course of action, but doing it for entertainment, in VERY inhumane ways, is what I have a problem with. Hunting is no longer a neccesity for survival in all but a few extreme circumstances. quote: Do you really think that anyone believes it is wrong to kill or injure a vicious animal when your's or another person's life is in immediate danger. Hell...It is universaly accepted that it is ok to kill another PERSON if he/she threatens your life. NOBODY will say that you should let an animal or person harm you in any way to spare the attacker pain. But I should also say that even if a bear is ready to tear me into tasty bite size pieces I'd rather it be traquilized than killed. Lemme state my point simply... We humans should make every effort to avoid causing other creatures to suffer NEEDLESSLY. If anyone cannot agree with that then we are at an impass. Causing any creature to suffer for no good reason, i.e. self preservation, is a cowardly, malicious, and a thouroghly disgusting act. Having said that I should also add that I do NOT think hunting should be outlawed. People need to give it up willingly. About guns...some of you probably assume that I think they should be outlawed...well I don't. If people feel as if they need a gun, trying to forcibly remove the right to posses one will only further strenghen their belief that they need one, and rightfully so. Guns should only leave our society when people feel that they no longer need them. Only then will the transfer be a just one. Some may say this is a circular argument, (he has a gun so I need one too, ad infinitum,) but I don't think so. As society contiunues to improve, (exactly how, few will agree, but it will happen) and justice spreads, the desire to own firearms will decline, it already has begun. More powerfull weapons make crime easier, but removing them will not remove crime, as stated above. The only real solution lies inside the human psyche. What exactly that solution is, no one knows....yet. But I really believe we are on the right track simply because we can sit hear and freely debate it. Some say that harser laws and punishments will lower crime, and it may, but it doesn't get at the heart of our problems. Well, to much babbling, I'm sure someone wil point out any inconsistancies that may exist above...and I look forward to it.  :::In the process of choosing some suitable quotes that are NOT from the Hitchiker's Guide::: | ||||
| allyourbasearebelongtous | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 4:56 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Apr. 01 | quote: If you are using the correct caliber rifle, and you can shoot straight, the animal will be dead before they hear the rifle shot. The prime shot is through the shoulder and through the heart. This is for two reasons. 1) It breaks the shoulder to keep the animal from running away, prolonging suffering, if they should survive the shot. 2) A shot in the heart from a high powered rifle will instantly kill just abount anything on this planet. It's not the penetration that kills the animal, it's the force behind the bullet. If you have to walk up to something you shot to end it's life, you are not a good shot, or you were just to damn anxious to shoot something. Go back to the range and learn to shoot. I don't think most of the people on this thread are saying that hunting needs to be done to feed people. God knows we have enough livestock to take care of that. The primary reason hunting is encouraged by wildlife management is population control, not to feed anyone. Granted, the food that is a by product is an added bonus. Most hunters will happily eat what they shoot, or find people who will gladly accept the meat. I love deer, elk, bear, etc... It's even healthier than the meat in the local supermarket, as it generally has less fat in it. It is well known that Buffalo (which is now being raised as livestock) is a much healthier alternative to beef cattle. It has far less cholesterol and fat in the meat. Every time I see a dead deer on the side of the road, I think to myself, what a waste. allyourbasearebelongtous  This message was edited by allyourbasearebelongtous on 6-14-01 @ 5:15 PM | ||||
| FaithLess Listener | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 5:29 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jun. 01 | All your base....I said earlier that pop control is a valid issue, but doing it with bullets or arrows is unnecesary. Ted chooses to use brutal methods because he enjoys it. There are humane ways to deal with that problem....lethal injection or relocation for example. Relocation I will admit is impractical in most cases though. Also, someone pointed out, rather harshly, that you can't eat the meat after using a lethal injection, which he seemed to think I didn't realize. What he seemed to miss is that I think not being able to eat the animal is a loss that is well worth the cost of sparing the creature from suffering. | ||||
| FaithLess Listener | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 5:32 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jun. 01 | I see you've added a new first paragraph...ok...I do agree but is what u are saying realistic? Even the best of sharpshooters cannot anticipate anothers movement and make a instant kill every time. I would even say that most of the time even a great shooter will fail at an instant kill, especially with an arrow. It just seems pointless to me. I have been there, and I know the thrill of the hunt, but I think other things are more important. | ||||
| The Painter 1/2 a bottle of Jack Daniels... it's a cure-all | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 8:35 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Sep. 00 | quote:Killing a animal and just throwing it away, is the epitome of arrogance.  This message was edited by The Painter on 6-14-01 @ 8:38 PM | ||||
| ShavinBush | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 8:57 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Painter - Great Point! Oh gee I don't want to hurt the animal so I am going to get back at all those meanies by rendering the animal remains useless! I'll show them! What are you 3 yrs. old? ------------------------------ An Adoptee of Grumpy's Family of Wayward F-tards and Midgets. ------------------------------ | ||||
| Spuds_Buckley | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 9:07 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | shouldn't this be in off-topic by now? j/k anyhoo...It's all part of the food-chain. We don't cry when lions kill to survive, just like lions don't cry when we kill to survive. Lions use claws, we use guns...no difference there we as humans evolved to become better killing machines due to our lack of claws and sharp teeth to become killing machines with guns. what did we learn...lions need to evolve as for hunting for sport...it depends strictly on the species in question. Killing a rabbit is no big whoop, they breed like...well rabbits. If you're hunting elephants, that's a different story. You're talking about an animal that takes two, 2 years to produce 1 offspring. They simply cannot reproduce fast enough.  You're not gonna take my hair and plant an evil Dewey are you? | ||||
| ShavinBush | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 9:24 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Jonesin - The Gloc is a great CARRY pistol with great weight, and because of a hidden hammer it is virtually snag-proof when you have to pull it, and it has absolutely NO kick to it. The Sig however has the best Center of Gravity and AWESOME accuracy! It is the better of the 2 at the range! But I prefer the Gloc for carry because it hides so nicely in a shoulder holster! ------------------------------ An Adoptee of Grumpy's Family of Wayward F-tards and Midgets. ------------------------------ | ||||
| ShavinBush | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 9:27 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | I definitely agree Spuds, I love hunting, but am totally against the WILD Extreme Game hunters! ------------------------------ An Adoptee of Grumpy's Family of Wayward F-tards and Midgets. ------------------------------ | ||||
| FoundryMusicJeff | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 9:53 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Hunting to feed your family? Are you insane? This is America. I have a Shop Rite down the road from me. Chief Engineer of the Starship Foundry. (NCC 1841-A) Visit FoundryMusic & Chat  | ||||
| ShavinBush | posted on 06-14-2001 @ 11:32 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Yes Shop Rite is Great, but there is only one problem, they do not sell Venicin (Probably spelled wrong)! ------------------------------ An Adoptee of Grumpy's Family of Wayward F-tards and Midgets. ------------------------------ | ||||
| Sir Okonkwo | posted on 06-15-2001 @ 6:17 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Jeff said: >> Hunting to feed your family? Are you insane? This is America. I have a Shop Rite down the road from me. I say: >> What about those people who don't trust meat packers and supermarkets, or even the butcher?? If I want to see my food go directly to my plate, without any middle man, who's to say I'm wrong for that? I can't go and get it for myself?? I'm sure Thomas Jefferson would have a problem with that. No sig yet. | ||||
| maryjrottencrotch | posted on 06-15-2001 @ 1:03 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | hunting good if you are eating what you hunt and don't hunt excess gun: good and guns don't kill people, asshole people kill people ; gun control is using two hands moron | ||||
| Arthur Dent | posted on 06-15-2001 @ 1:56 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Nov. 00 | I am completely amazed this is still going. As to alternate methods of population control, The Department of Fish and Wildlife has done studies for DECADES on other methods. The end result has ALWAYS been that the most successful, HUMANE, and cost effective way is controlled hunting. No, I don't have any numbers to quote, but the reports are pretty easy to find. And as to buying meat in the store being more ethical than hunting, have you ever seen exactly how animals are treated and killed in slaughterhouses? Putting a bolt through a cows head is the OLD way! What they also do is coax the cows to stick their heads through holes in a wall with feed on the other side. Once the cow are in place, they tighten belts that lock the cows head in place. The a sharp blade pops up and slits the cows throat. The cow then quickly bleads to death on the spot. The mass production methods of animal slaughter are FAR crueler than ANYTHING a hunter does in the woods. Every single person who has posted here against hunting because it is cruel to animals should either be a vegitarian or admit their a hypocrit just because they don't personally see their dinner being slaughtered. And, if you new anyhting about hunting, you would know that a successful hunter MUST study the animals, their environment, etc. and in the process find a deep appreciation and love for nature in all its splendor and ruthlessnes.  "I don't read books, but I have friends who do." -Presidential Candidate George W. Bush "I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada." - Britney Spears | ||||
| NgrCharlie | posted on 06-16-2001 @ 12:05 AM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jan. 01 | Quote: "The second amendment does not grant individuals the right to bear arms. It grants the states (basically the locality) the right to produce an army independent of Federal Goverment control. This was done to prevent a tyrranical government. How/Why? The Chinese in Tinannen Square were masacred by, for a lack of a better term, "hick" soldiers who felt that the urban students were whiney and disloyal. An army of urban soldiers would have been more resistant to slaughtering the citizens." Why do you think China has strict gun laws? Maybee so there will be no real resistance against 'hick soldiers' Burn my flag ...Dont FUCK with my Constitution STAY OUT DA BUSHES!! Not only do I deny the allegations...I deny the alligator | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 06-16-2001 @ 12:57 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | I personally believe that we cannot outlaw guns. If we do it will open up a huge can of worms. First do you honestly think if we outlaw guns that criminals will just willingly give up their guns? Sure law-abiding people will but not the people we are worried about. As for hunting there are lots of people in the boonies and even here that much prefer to hunt than buy food. You are also forgetting that the Government can turn on you any second.  Resident Board Socialist Email me at sticksituation22@yahoo.com or pinkorag@yahoo.com IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag The comintern is currently idle | ||||
| Spork | posted on 06-16-2001 @ 2:45 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Well, precisely. You can make anything you want illegal, but criminals (who have a nasty habit of doing illegal things) aren't really going to give a flying fuck about gun laws. It's almost to the point of the MAD (mutually assured destruction) argument, the Ronald Reagan "Peace throught strength" policy, which worked by the way. But we really have small arms proliferation out there, and there are so many guns out there that simply outlawing them won't even make a dent at getting rid of them or anything. You truly would only be taking guns away from people who should be able to have them.  Adopted by Rone on 6/6/01 | ||||
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