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 Displaying 26-50 of 65 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: Tax Relief Act of 2001 | ||||
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| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 10:49 AM |    | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01  | OK i'm confused you say it was the Democrats that wanted to give the checks but you guys give all the credit to the republicans? Will somebody please explain this? And shouldn't we pay down the debt and or keep this money in safekeeping because frankly the economy doesn't look too good at this point.  Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Black Lazerus | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 11:03 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: May. 01 | quote:I understand what you mean but most people haven't learned about the "Bread and circuses syndrome". Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark.  | ||||
| DasDoomper | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 1:10 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | quote: Debt is not always bad thing. If someone is borrowing money, that means that someone is also making money. As for keeping it in safekeeping, why isn't it safe in my bank account? It's MY MONEY, NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S. It's a SURPLUS. When you call up a plumber and ask them to give you an estimate to fix your toilet, you don't give them the estimate, you give them the FINAL cost of the job, right? Well, in this case, Congress estimated way too damn much, and they "charged" (taxed) more money than they needed to run this country. It really makes you wonder if they haven't been overcharging us for a long time now. DasDoomper  | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 1:20 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Yeah someone is making money off of debt. That would be the large conglomerate banks. If there is no debt the CEO can't buy another Ferrari this year. Also frankly 300(or whatever) isn't that much. But when you put it together from everybody that is a lot of money. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Arthur Dent | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 1:21 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Nov. 00 | In the course of my work, I have met a few VERY wealthy individuals. And I can tell you, they don't notice the taxes they pay. These people have so much money, they have no concept of what the everyday person deals with just to pay the bills and budget their money. Sure, they run multi-million dollar companys perfectly, but they also have a semi-truck pull up to the house once a month to drop off all the latest toys for the kids, have hundreds of $10,000 a piece trees planted on their estate on a whim, etc. and don't even flinch at the bill. So, is it fair that these people get taxed more than the city teacher making $32,000 and trying to raise a family? Absolutely! Of that 95% of wage earners, probably 75% of them live paycheck to paycheck and the rest are just comfortable. Those 5% of wage earners are like the people I mentioned. They have more money then they could spend in one life-time, get everything they want on a whim, and have a great deal of political, social, and economic influence. ::And don't ask for any examples. Client confidentiality.::  "I don't read books, but I have friends who do." -Presidential Candidate George W. Bush "I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada." - Britney Spears | ||||
| Sloatsburgh | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 1:22 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | quote: The husband gets to hit on Grk. Actually, be aware that this act will also affect your 401(k)/IRA contributions. The limit will be raised. IRAs will be higher than 2K and 401(k) will be higher than 25%. (or what ever they are)  220, 221, whatever it takes. | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 1:39 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | I think Dent put it best. When the rich get tax breaks a lot of the weight gets forced on the poor. If the rich took more of the taxes and didn't put so much burden on the poor and allow them to actually not live on paycheck to paycheck then life would be easier. Honestly I feel no sympathy for a multi-millionaire that wants to pay less taxes because he is so damn greedy. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| DasDoomper | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 3:27 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | I wonder how you socialists and liberals would feel if the roles were reversed? You haven't earned the money, so you don't know how hard they worked to get it. Do you know why all the rich liberal celebrities give money to charity? So they can get a TAX BREAK! Most don't give two squirts of piss about what they are donating to. They are more concerned about how they look to you than the people they are "helping". Also, why are they greedy if they make more money than most people. The majority of wealthy people work very long hours to maintain their wealth. People on Wall St. don't work 9-5 M-F. Also, who do you think provides all the JOBS to you people who don't have the balls to go into business for yourselves? I can tell you, it sure as shit isn't the government. They are too busy screwing the business owners that pay part of your social security - something else the government should stop fucking up and needs to let people privatize. Sure, there are others that come from "old money" but there are a lot of people that worked their asses off to obtain the wealth they have. America is a country where they punish those who work hard to achieve wealth and reward those who suck on the bit tit of government. For those of you that want a socialist government, move your ass to Cuba and kick that little fuck Elian in the balls for me. Why the hell shouldn't the poor pay taxes? Hell, even the DEAD pay taxes! Look into it, it's called the estate tax. Personally, I would like to see the 15% flat tax. That way, everyone that works has to pay, and don't give me that bullshit about how the poor will be paying more. If you make 20K a year, thats only $250 a month. Someone who makes 100K a year will pay $1250 a month. Right now, someone who makes 100K a year pays about $2250 - ALMOST TWICE AS MUCH. The flat tax will also eliminate the "Need to have a PhD in accounting from Harvard to understand it tax code" and cut a lot of bullshit programs out of government. You know what the cure for being poor is? GET A FUCKING JOB! Lower your damn pride and get a job at McDonalds! There is no job that is beneith you. I worked in fast food for 3 years during college - so did Dave Thomas, the owner of Wendys. I clawed my way up the ladder after I got my degree, and I am now making more than most people my age. You know why more poor people don't succeed in this country? Because they are too damn lazy to work! They would rather have the government give them a check for having babies this country doesn't need, and sitting on their fat asses watching Jerry Springer. Pay attention in high school, get into college and get a job. It's not fucking brain surgery. Don't feed me that crap about how school is too expensive either. Hell, if your anything but white, there are people practically throwing money at you to go to school. Some ivy league schools now even pay for your tuition if you can get it and you can't afford it. The point is, the only thing holding yourself back is yourself. There is no other country in this world that offers you more oppourtunity to succeed. :::Steps off soapbox::: DasDoomper | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 3:33 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Privatization won't work because companies are capitalists when they are making money and socialists when they are losing it. As for you saying move to a Socialist country. These so called "socialist/communist utopias" are in reality State Capitalisms. For example in the USSR worker protests were banned. Now that is something a true socialist would never support. You want to cut bullshit programs out of the government how about we try to cut down the military budget and stop the SDI program. Bush broke the Anti-Ballistic Missile treaty with this program. What message does that send? That sends the message that any country can break a treaty just because the USA did it and they can't ever do wrong. As for you saying get a job there are so many poor people with jobs. I know how some of them had the shittiest jobs for the longest time supporting their family and it took them forever to climb up the ladder but they eventually did. But that doesn't mean we have to make it extra hard for them. And as for the opportunity thing I think Luxembourg and Denmark have us beat:). Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Arthur Dent | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 3:53 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Nov. 00 | Nobody said that the poor shouldn't pay any taxes. And I certainly didn't say we should be socialist. I have met old money and I have met new money. These are NOT the evil people like in Caddyshack and other 80's anti-rich movies. And yes, they did work hard to make their money. But so does every cop, fireman, teacher, factory worker, etc. The theory that ALL you have to do is work really hard and you'll make tons of money is bullshit! It's a myth! It also takes a whole lot of luck, intelligence, connections, and MONEY to make a lot of money! Taxes are currently ROUGHLY based on ability to pay and still live a comfortable life. That means the poor live paycheck to paycheck, but they still live off of it. And I am not going to lose a minutes sleep because Joe Richguy can only buy two vaction homes instead of three, the 52' boat instead of the 65' boat, etc. Sorry, if you want taxes lowered, adjusting the RELATIVE amounts people pay isn't the way. Adjusting the FEDERAL BUDGET is! There are currently 100's of BILLIONS of dollars spent of defense RESEARCH! Not arming our troops or buying jet fuel for the planes, but black project research into new military hardware. And MOST of these projects NEVER pay-off. Many of them are only to keep the companies afloat. That's just ONE example of poor government spending for the purposes of getting votes, repaying campaign contributors, or just doing something because its been done that way for decades. "I don't read books, but I have friends who do." -Presidential Candidate George W. Bush "I get to go to lots of overseas places, like Canada." - Britney Spears | ||||
| skitchr4u G.O.O.F.B.A.H.G.S. Xtreme Skiing Assualt Force | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 4:03 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Dec. 00 | Hey doomper, what makes you think that all poor people have no jobs? I don't consider myself poor, just a normal middle class guy who busted his ass getting to where I am, but I do have friends who are really POOR...they have jobs, but those jobs don't pay enough to keep them from barley surviving paycheck to paycheck...I do agree that people should stop thinking so highly of themselves when they need money and go get that job at mcd's or bk...but that isn't the solution in all cases. As for the rich working harder than me, go fuck yourself, I bust my ass all day long at this place, and get the same crap as someone who slacks their way through the day, getting the same pay. Sure I am on the board, but get more done in my work day than people who sit at their desk and just push papers around all day. So saying that rich people work harder than the rest of us is the stupidest shit i ever heard...hits you with your damn soapbox AIM: SkiT4you First Member of the JWO | ||||
| FaithLess Listener | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 4:42 PM | | |||
| Hanger-On Registered: Jun. 01 | I just got a hold of the new fedral witholding tax table. My fedal tax, and the taxes on most of you, are going UP next week. Before I even get my check in August, I will have given more than the "refund" back to the gov because of the new rates. Ponderous.......... | ||||
| DasDoomper | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 4:53 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | quote: If they made it up the ladder it wasn't as hard as you think it is. I lived paycheck to paycheck when I got out of college. I used to travel a lot for my job. I was so poor, I would save the shampoo and soap from the hotels I stayed in so I didn't have to buy them myself. quote: I never said the rich work harder than you. I said they work hard. I'm lucky if I put in a 10 hr day minimum. Average is more like 12. for the remainder of the day, there is the possibility I will be paged or contacted on my cell phone. Just because I don't put out fires, arrest criminals, or lift heavy objects doesn't mean I don't work hard. quote: I live that myth every day. I'm not a millionire (far from it) but I do live comfortably. All I did was go though college and work hard. In five years, I quadrupled my salary. Is this going to happen to everyone? No. Is it possible if you work hard? Yes. Sure teachers, firemen, and cops work hard, but they know going into those jobs they are not going to be a millionare, and they shouldn't expect to be one. Do I think they should be paid more? Sure. Should they expect to make lot so of money doing it? No. quote: If you restrict the money going in, you will have to automaticaly restrict the money spent. You can't get blood from a stone. The government spends too much because we give them too much to spend. As we all know, money doesn't grow on trees. I also think term limits and making political lobbying illegal will cut a lot of the fat in the budget too. As for all those military research projects that don't work, the same can be said about all the social porgrams that don't work either. For the most part, the welfare programs in this country are disasters. Most of the people on them don't want to come off because they are so dependent on them. Sure, there are a few that truely benifited from the programs, and they deserved the help they got. I just can't comprehend why someone needs federal assistance more than 2 years to get a job and become financialy stable. quote: I was refering to the privatization of the Social Secruity program. When it was enacted, the benifits were to be paid when you retired at the age of 65. Guess what the average life span of a human being was at the time? 55. It was never ment to be given back to you. It was just another tax on people and business owners. If you die before the age of 65, you get NOTHING. Of course, over time, people began to live longer, and the government realized they were screwed. If this system was privatized, the government would stop using it as an account to draw loans from and people would be responsible for ensuring their own retirement. It's a proven fact that the stock market will out perfrom the return on social security over the long haul. Why settle for $100 when you can have $500? can you imagine what dumping all that money into the economy would do? Companies would be able to take out more loans to provide more jobs. With the way the government runs things, do you want to trust them with your retirement? I sure as hell don't. DasDoomper This message was edited by DasDoomper on 7-2-01 @ 5:03 PM | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 5:00 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | I know a lot of computer programmers that just graduated that can't get a job because the economy is so fucked up. They try and have take real low-paying jobs. Sometimes people need help getting to where they are. For example someone is more charming during an interview may get the job rather than someone who would actually do the job better. Not everyone is like you. In fact it is most that are not like you. Also faithless listener said it himself taxes are going up. I know you will say that the Democrats did it but you know what. Republicans are supposed to help out small businesses and democrats are supposes to help out the workers but in actuality the parties serve the ridicously rich. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 7:54 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Couple more points: On why it is actually GOOD for the federal government to run up some debt... doesn't quite seem right does it, it doesn't quite make sense. Nothing complicated ever does I'm afraid. It's sort of analagous to someone who is rich enough to pay for a house in cash outright, but why should they do that if they can take a $1 million mortgage and get the tax deduction. So too is it with the federal debt. In order to finance the debt, the US government sells bonds, T-bills, etc. Good old Alan Greenspan himself said that if the government were to pay off the debt early they would cripple other parts of the economy by forcing the federal government to get into the business of investing in the private sector to get the returns for the people who held bonds. Bottom line - very sticky situation and is actually troublesome to pay off debt too early with the SURPLUS (remember, that means taxpayers paid too much to the government). Now as for computer programmers who can't find jobs? Maybe that is because the venture CAPITAL dried up. It's this funny thing about CAPITALISM that they need CAPITAL to make things go, and people need incentives to become WEALTHY. I don't really want to start into some sort of Gordon Gecko-esque "greed is good" speech, but it really is. The drive for people to make money means that we have software companies out there who try to make things more efficient for businesses. They want things made more efficient so that they can increase their profits. But for people to make software they need to hire programmers, blah blah blah. Call it what you will, trickle down economics, economic darwinism, whatever. These types of incentives just don't work in the socialist world. Profit is evil, the attaining of capital is evil. Winston Churchill said it best when he said "If you're young and not liberal you have not heart; if you're old and not conservative you have no brain." The United States is one of the only countries in the world where no one can stop you from being rich if you really try. You CAN go from rags to riches. All you need is hard work, intelligence, and that spirit, that drive that few of us have. People might slow you down, but no one will stop you, no one will prevent you. THAT is what makes this country so great.  Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 8:12 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Socialists don't believe profit is evil. But the abuse and neglect of others for your personal gain is. Also we all know how trickle down economics worked in the 80s right? Do you think it right for people's lives to be determined by a fickle capitalist market? What you said about from rag to riches is complete bullshit. For every 100 people like that maybe 1 gets thru the cracks but they don't talk about the other 99. And yes people will stop you dead in your tracks. Don't buy into the hype. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 8:58 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Why is capitalism synonymous with abuse and neglect of others for one's personal gain? Sure, we all love to "fight the man" but come now, you don't have the bulk of capitalistic societies engaged in activites that do that. Capitalism helps so many more than it hurts. Really, truly it does! Do I think it's right for people's lives to be determined by a "fickle" capitalistic market? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY! It's great! Never before has an economy system existed that is so dynamic, so quick to change. How is that not exciting, commerce in general? I really do think it's great. Take for instance, our own Opie and Anthony show. They are instruments of capitalism. Are the MILF's victimized for O&A and WNEW's profits? Are they being exploited because O&A do this to entertain us but also to ensure that more advertisers come on board? As for not buying the hype about the American dream? That's where I draw the line. I am an IMMIGRANT. I am living the American dream. It is the greatest thing in the world. This place is the land of opportunity. If you don't know that yet, leave the country for a while and see how much you miss the very instruments of capitalism. Tax cuts are great, opportunity is great, capitalism is great, freedom is great, liberty is great. All these things and more you will find in the United States of America. If you do not find them, you are NOT LOOKING! For whatever reason those people who aren't living the dream, for the most part, have only themselves to blame. Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| njstrawberry | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 9:10 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Feb. 01 | quote: Okay, you need to go back to the first page of this thread and click on my link to the tax incentives that were just passed. Your tax % did not increase. To do that would require a restructuring of the tax brackets. It's not something they do on the whim. If you are paying more now than you need to check a couple of things: Has your pay increased? Have the number of your dependents increased? Is it more federal that has been deducted or other taxes? And if they only raised your tax % on your paycheck and no one else's in the country..then they are really out to get YOU..lmfao..well..then..they say when in rome do as the romans do..well when in America do as the Americans do..sue...LMFAO **HINT** A stupid reply to a stupid comment **HINT** Now go laugh and feel stupid. LMFAO  | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 9:13 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Capitalism itself in pure form is horrible. When it is regulated it can be used well. Look at unregulated capitalism in the 19th century. Would you want to live in that world. I will agree with you that freedom & liberty are great but they have not fully come to terms in the US. For example I am probably being labeled at the State Department and am being watched online for what I say politically on this message board. I have reason to believe my phone is tapped. Do you call that freedom? And don't call me crazy either because it is true. This is reality in the freeest country in the world. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 10:34 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | I guess my question to you is - why socialism? Is there a country out there that you would rather live in that is socialist? The United States is probably the only country in the world that does not have a socialist party (while many could make some good arguments that the Democrats are, serious students of political science wouldn't make such an assertion). Do you see examples of socialist countries throughout the world doing things that the United States should be doing, should we be more like someone? Everything I've seen about socialism tells me that it just doesn't work very well. It's not very efficient. It promotes laziness, complacency, mediocrity. Those are not things that America is known for. What IS cool though is that you can say whatever you want in this country with little recourse. People might be listening in, and yes, that's an affront to everyone's liberty (wonder how many TAX DOLLARS went into that little Echelon system, hmmm?) but isn't it great that you don't TRULY have to worry about your safety because of your speech. Start the chant with me now... "USA, USA, USA!" Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-02-2001 @ 11:01 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | This may suprise you but the Green Party is strongly socialist. The right wing of it is ultra-liberal why the moderate and left wings are socialists. The left green network of libertarian socialists(anarchists who say government is good as long as it serves a purpose) of Murray Bookchin is part of the Green Party. Many countries in Europe and Canada I feel have taken socialistic twists to their economy and have benefited the general population. The quality of life in these countries are very high(higher than this country). And I hate the argument if you don't like the USA move. Isn't being a part of a Democratic society is to do what you think will improve it. Also I feel your assumptions about Socialism are wrong. Socialism has done lots of good in the world. Without it we would have never gotten Unions(if you hate them now I could understand how corrupt some of them are but that is because of capitalist corruption and there is no disputing what they have done for workers rights), company benefits, paid vacation, the list goes on. And it will continue to do good in the world. Also about the freedom of speech thing the perfect example to dispute that is John Lennon. Look what happened to him. Sounds real free to me. P.S-WOW intelligent discussion on oa.com. This is a first. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International This message was edited by adolescentmasturbator on 7-2-01 @ 11:15 PM | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-03-2001 @ 8:32 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | ... I'm sorry, I guess there are so many Greens elected at the federal and state level that I had forgotten about them... In order to be a big political force, or at least one of consequence it is generally accepted that you should probably have some of your folks elected at least in a minority position. When I speak of the US being the only country in the Western world without a socialist party, I do mean one that people vote for and elect from time to time. The U.S. is a two party system, or at least that's what I thought Ralph Nader kept complaining about? Now as for your point about standards of living in Canada being higher than those in the United States, I again could not disagree more vehemently. For instance, let's look at this little tidbit from the realitytimes.com website: quote: Now those figures are coming from an INDUSTRY CANADA report. Maybe I'm just not some wide-eyed idealist, and if you can make a change that you think is beneficial, more power to you! But I left Canada because there is more opportunity in the United States. You are not subjected to the types of barriers to success that you are in socialistic countries. My personal standard of living is AMAZINGLY better here than it ever would have been in Canada. I'm no more smart here, I'm no more hard working, it's just that in the United States my hard work and intelligence and ideas are rewarded and my ability to display my talents as an INDIVIDUAL moreso than being part of a COLLECTIVE show through. Also, if you read closely, I wasn't at all suggesting that you leave the United States if you don't like it. I was simply asking you for examples of places that are better than the United States because of socialism. When you take the example of Canada, many Americans know that Canada has socialized medicine, but the crime is, they think it's a GOOD system! It is NOT! I dare say that more people in the Canadian system suffer than they do in the U.S. system. People DIE waiting in LINE in Canada. I have seen these things first hand. I guess I just don't want you to be swept up by the Dogma that is the left. Yes, the right has their's too, but challenge things that you hear even if they are favorable to your position. For instance, consider another problem that plagues the Canadian healthcare system - healthcare workers that strike! Ain't that a bitch! What's a good socialist to do? Who do they take sides with there? The patient who needs care, or the nurse who wants a better standard of living? There's the rub. You can go on about how unions have been corrupted and blah blah blah, but look, that's a NATURAL CONCLUSION. The whole system of socialism doesn't work. Look to the economic collapse of Sweden in the late 80's and early 90's. These institutions cannot last because we are, don't forget this now, ALL HUMAN. We are ALL, to some degree or another, inherently selfish beings. We are. Capitalism doesn't make us selfish, we're just selfish. It's self preservation. Why does socialism fail everywhere it's tried? People's selfishness always outweighs the collective good. Corruption always occurs. Capitalism promotes selfishness, but ironically, it almost always benefits the COLLECTIVE good of everyone. It's an amazing system. Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-03-2001 @ 11:08 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Alright Canada may be worse but you cannot dispute say Denmark. I know that you can get healthcare as quick as you can there. I know this one. They get healthcare from the goverment asap. Also the Green Party is emerging because many disgruntled Democrats are leaving that party because of the direction it is going that they percieve. Combine that with the possible merger of another Green Party and you have an a party waiting to come onto the political scene. Also Capitalism does not benefit the collective good. Look at the US economy the socialistic reforms to it have allowed money to spread to more people instead of just the elite. Pure capitalism is a cruel thing indeed. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-03-2001 @ 7:51 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Well, I hate to be so vigilant about this, but yes, I can dispute Denmark. You don't get your healthcare ASAP, just like Canada, just like Britain. All the places that employ a socialist system of medicine seem to have this nasty problem with long lines. Hmph! Now in Denmark, this is how the system works: First, and this is pretty important, half your income goes to the state. Once you have been living in Denmark for 6 weeks at the minimum, you sign up for a general practitioner. You may not change that general practitioner freely. If you want to go to another primary caregiver, you have to pay the state a fee. So suppose you get a tummy ache and you want to go to the doctor. You call up to make an appointment, and oh, look at that, everyone in your small town has the same GP and it happens to be cold and flu season. They can't see you for a week at least! Well, that's okay, you figure. THe doctor finally gets around to seeing you and says there's nothing wrong with you. You're cramping up though, all the time, and you think your appendix is going to burst. Well, surely you can get a second opinion or maybe go to a gastrointerologist or something? Nope, just like some of the evil HMO's you need a referral before you can see a specialist, and your doctor doesn't think you need one, so you're not getting it. I dunno, my healthcare's a lot better than that sort of scenerio right now, my company provides me with more than that. I can go to any doctor I please, see any specialist I please, all for one easy co-pay of $15. No waiting, no lines, no nothing. As baby boomers age the strains that are placed on these socialist systems will cause those systems to collapse. Denmark is simply not a paradise. They have real problems with their healthcare system and those problems arise precisely because of the nature of the system. And if they're system isn't in a near state of collapse yet it will be just like Canada's, just like Britain's. Capitalism does not benefit the collective good? Hmmm. Interesting. If private industry, using profits as partial motivation, hadn't stepped in, would we have the human genome mapped yet? Would we have half of the medicines that we have? Just because someone is acting in their own self-interest, why, that doesn't mean that their actions can't benefit society as a whole, or do you think that is the case? What about the computer that you're working on. Would computers have hit the mass market if it weren't for that greedy bastard Bill Gates, or that other greedy bastard Steve Jobs, or that greedy bastard of a company IBM? But look at all the societal good that PC's give us? We have the Internet where almost anyone can look up anything. This "thing" that has flourished because of capitalism is helping just about everyone from the very young to the very old. Socialist systems are inherently inefficient. Supply and demand is as close to perfect a system as we're going to get, my friend! Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-03-2001 @ 8:30 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | First of all the internet was first built by universities and the like and world wide web architecture was created similarily not by some huge corporation. Also for the healthcare argument. What about the millions and millions of americans with absolutely no healtchare. What are we going to do about them? BTW having your company provide you healtchare is also a socialist idea. As much as you may dislike socialism many of its ideas have come into shape and have been adopted. Now here is another thing that happened to me. I hurt my foot and went to the doctor. Now I have insurance and for a small check-up the bill was 400 dollars! All capitalism does is fuck you up the ass for money. Now if you don't like the government giving you healthcare you could always get a system where private companies will have insurance plans that supplement the government's. And with less to pay for your healthcare your company can give you other benefits or a higher paycheck. This benefits you and the millions of people without any insurance. Now simply you do not support a market economy. I do not want to support a command economy because that isn't the right answer either. Currently the US government is a mix of the 2 that is closer to a market economy. Now I just feel it should move farther away from a market economy. And I know you would never support a market economy in its purest form. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
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