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Displaying 51-65 of 65 messages in this thread. |
| Posted By | Discussion Topic: Tax Relief Act of 2001 | ||||
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| Spork | posted on 07-03-2001 @ 9:54 PM |    | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01  | Hehehe, well don't assume I wouldn't support a true market-based economy because I generally would. I'm not that much of an altruist - if I were to exist in a true market economy I would be doing even better than I'm doing now. I have always had an objectivist, libertarian bent to my thinking, and growing up in Canada you are constantly bombarded by socialism. It just doesn't work for me, and I think for the most part it hampers your most valuable members of society (yes, I think that hard working people and intelligent people are worth more to society than leeches who just take take take from society without giving anything back - just like I think humans are better than animals. I don't care if it's not a popular opinion anymore, it's just me). I am somewhat flummoxed when folks who have lived in the U.S. all their lives don't see the genius of the system that we have. We have such a high standard of living because of it. I am disturbed by the anti-globalists, the anti-market people out there because I see them as a threat to my standard of living. As for a multi-tiered level of care - that already exists in the U.S. today. It's called medicare and medicaid. Are there people that are uninsured? Yes. Are there a lot of people who are uninsured who are uninsured by choice - YES! As you say, it comes down to which system you think is more gooder. I think history is showing us again and again that the market-based economy is efficient and it works well, better than the socialist system which almost always devolves into a self-serving corrupted system burdened down by bureaucrats. If you look at your example of your foot injury costing you $400 for instance, that to me seems a helluva lot better than half your income going to the state and you getting that doctor visit for "free." That's the problem in Canada, a lot of people abuse the system because they never receive a bill - they just assume it's "free."  Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-03-2001 @ 10:27 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Are you serious that you would support a pure market economy? We would have countless monopolys stifling competition therefore creating less jobs and sky-high prices for every product combined with low wages. As for anti-globalists you have no idea what the WTO really stands for. They want to consolidate and create less jobs, use child labor, want to create a meritocracy, the list goes on. You say the US system is perfect but yet you would rather have it move toward a pure market economy. If the pure market economy wasn't so brutal socialism would have never developed. A pure market economy just allows to serve the needs of the few.  Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 11:11 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | I said, if given the direction I were to choose, whether a country were to lean towards a market-based system of a socialist-system I would lean heavily towards the market-based system. As I have explained, I had a choice of whether I wanted to live in Canada or live in the United States, and on this 4th of July I am damned proud to say I chose the United States! That's because the United States understands the beauty of capitalism and embraces it. Do we all benefit from certain elements of socialism? SURE we do, I am not going to be so intellectually militant to deny you that. But what I would suggest to you is that our lives are much more positively impacted by capitalism than they are socialism. There is no better country to live in, in the entire world, than the one we're living in right now. Our culture, our freedoms, our liberty, our high standard of living, our ability to do almost anything we want with few people standing in our way... these are the things that make America great. For the examples that you give of the successes of socialism, there are many more examples of failures, and as time goes on those tend to increase. Opie and Anthony, for example, could not exist in a socialist country because they would be deemed too offensive to various interest groups. The radical left, the politically correct crew, pose just as much harm as bible thumpers do. There are just way too many things that I like (and I suspect you like too) that exist because there was a profit-motive behind them. People and things only fail when they fail to take charge for themselves. The disenfranchised folks in this country simply fail to take charge for themselves. If I were in a pure market economy I would do just fine because I would learn to exist within that system and make sure that I was more competitive than the next guy. But look, that really is an ethereal argument because we both know that in this day and age, a pure market economy cannot exist, nor can a pure socialist economy. Perhaps we are just arguing about the blend, but if you look at country after country you'll see that the blend to the left does not even do what it portends to do! Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 12:30 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | You say that socialism has failed in many cases and I won't dispute that but so has capitalism. Look at India, it is a capitalism and it is terrible. Capitalism has around the same success(and by success i mean acheiving what it wants to do) rate as Socialism. Also you would be suprised how O&A would be accepted by Socialists. Take Lewis Black for example. Remember when he said he votes Socialist. And he goes on the show all the time. A lot of the radical left would protect freedom of speech to the death. You would be surprised. Also socialists have varying views of what a socialist economy would be. Some say heavy governent regulation, others say all government regulation however I prefer to call that State Capitalism(meaning no private industry), others say workers taking control and having say in the industry more actively. P.S-Why does every political discussion turn into capitalism vs. socialism. I thought we were talking about Bush's tax plan lol. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 4:24 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Well, you really have to ask yourself why it is that India is so terrible, seeing as after its independence from Britain in the 1940's it followed a path of socialism. There are many factors that come into play there, but the society is by no means egalitarian like our society here. They still have arranged marriage, they still have a caste system, they still have classes. These things are just downright "un-American." India is held down by its culture and its climate more than anything. They relied on the Soviet Union for much of their financing throughout the Cold War, so I don't quite think they're the bastion of capitalism that you might believe they are. I am more "surprised" that the radical left doesn't support free speech more than it does, but the radical left serves to censor and supress the ideas that it does not approve of. The radical left brought you political correctness, they brought me political science professors who wouldn't let me use the term "freshmen congressman" but instead I was forced to say "first year member in the House of Representatives" or I would receive a failing grade on the paper. While I don't agree with everything she says, you should check out Camille Paglia, a good member of the left who has some interesting criticisms for her own side. I suppose not every discussion must come down so close to the core of pro-market or pro-socialist viewpoints, but in terms of a tax cut, that really is where battle lines are drawn. But hey, I'm just itchin' to do something good with the $600 of my money that the government is "kind enough" to give back to me. That's the bottom line for me. I really am just interested in what the allure of socialism is for you, I suppose. It interests me because I would like to better understand why younger generations are being courted so heavily by disaffected groups. Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 4:42 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Just because a country accepted aide from the Soviet Union does not mean it is to the left. Egypt did that and they are far from the radical left. As for why younger generations are being heavily courted by disaffected groups you are wrong. I am probably the only real socialist in my school. There are those jackasses that say they are anarchists yet they don't know even know what it stands for and who is Bakunin, Proudhon, etc. I chose Socialism for so many factors. To me it represents equality, justic, liberty, and freedom at its best. Sure there are people that douchebags that use Socialism and are the PC police but those are not real socialists in my eyes because they limit your freedom. And to me that isn't what it is really about. Capitalism does nothing but make barriers between people. Socialism does the opposite. Just so you should know here are some people that are Socialists and maybe it help you understand. Albert Einstein Martin Luther King Hellen Keller Susan B. Anthony John Steinbeck Pablo Picasso H. G. Wells Jack London W. E. B. DuBois George Orwell Ralph Waldo Emerson Langston Hughes Upton Sinclair George Bernard Shaw Reinhold Neibuhr Carl Sandburg Oscar Wilde Noam Chomsky and many others. Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 8:05 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | You should take a look at "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, I think you'd find it pretty interesting. Believe me, I'm not trying to impune your character, nor am I at all stating that people who are intelligent aren't allowed to be socialists. There are just as many extraordinary people who support the free-market. Unlike Senator McCarthy I refuse to make a list of names :) My world view is already colored by my belief sets and from what I have seen. I feel as though socialism in Canada chased me away from the country and took me here to chase my dreams. But that's me and you're you. You should definitely be congratulated for your socialist views if people are giving you trouble with them in your school, but some how I think when you get to college you'll find the exact opposite is true. It's much harder to be a right-leaning Republican in institutions of higher learning, because almost all the academia are steeped in the teachings of Marx. Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 8:12 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | I don't think you should be harassed my people just because you have right-leaning beliefs. Just like people that are left-leanign shouldn't be. If that was so society would be a lot more democratic in my opinion. quote: Yes I know that you are not trying to impune my character. And I am sure there are many intelligent people that support the free market too. But in my opinion free market also means unequal opportunity. It's all a matter of how you look at things. And plus we all know that every single republican is evil;). Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Spork | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 9:32 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Jun. 01 | Evil...and rich! Mouhahahaha! ;) Graduated and Rooned by Rone on 6/16/01 | ||||
| adolescentmasturbator | posted on 07-04-2001 @ 9:51 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Jan. 01 | Yes but you the proletariot will rise up and crush the rich with the sickle & hammer;). Resident Board Socialist Email me here IM me at stickysituation2 or pinkorag I am currently looking for newbies to bring into the International | ||||
| Mayor of Sloatsburg | posted on 07-05-2001 @ 11:17 AM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Oct. 00 | Hey, look everyone - dick jokes on cnn.com! ;) "Save my ups, deek." | ||||
| Arthur Dent | posted on 08-14-2001 @ 11:52 AM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Nov. 00 | Just got this by e-mail. It's the best explanation I've seen yet. Tax Checks In The Mail, But There's A Catch Practical Reasons Behind Advance-Refund System Source: Denver Rocky Mountain News Publication date: 2001-07-21Arrival time: 2001-07-25 The tax-relief checks that will start arriving in mailboxes next week don't have a consumer-warning label, so we're happy to provide one. Warning: This check is not a "rebate" of taxes you already paid. It's an advance on the refund you'll get when you file next April. If it's an advance, you ask, does that mean my refund in April will be $300 smaller than it would have been? And if I'm unlucky enough to owe taxes, does that mean my tax bill will be $300 higher? The answer to both questions is yes. But you'd never guess that from the 1040 you'll fill out next year. It's been designed so that it's nearly impossible to realize how the 2001 rebate checks affect your tax preparation in 2002. "I think people think what they're getting is a refund of taxes they paid in 2000," said Gary Dudley, the tax partner-in-charge at Deloitte & Touche's Denver office. "If they think their taxes were going to show up lower April 15 (from this change), they're not." The "immediate tax relief," as the Internal Revenue Service calls it, was designed by Congress and the Bush administration to give taxpayers the benefit of a 2001 tax-rate reduction as soon as possible. Rather than wait for next April, you'll get the tax cut now. "Congress intended the credit to take care of the rate reduction for 2001," said John McGreevy, an assistant branch chief for administration with the IRS. "They wanted to get money into people's pockets for an economic stimulus." Bear with us for the math on how your check is calculated: The rate on the first $6,000 of income for singles and $12,000 for married taxpayers filing jointly is being cut from 15 percent to 10 percent. That's why the refund checks range from $300 for singles ($900 in taxes reduced to $600) and $600 for marrieds ($1,800 in taxes reduced to $1,200). But if you were to fill out the tax form next April using the new rates, you'd get the tax-cut benefits a second time. That's why the tax tables that will accompany next year's 1040 will charge you the old 15 percent tax rate, not the new 10 percent rate. The IRS could have included a line at the end of the 1040 where you took the amount of the refund check and reduced your refund by $300 or $600 or, even worse, added that money to the tax bill you owe. You won't have to do that, because the amount owed you pull from the tables at the back of the booklet will have already done that for you. "The risk of that (line) approach is that the adjustment could flip you from a refund to a balance due, and you really wouldn't believe you received that money," Dudley said. But before you direct your anger at the IRS, look to the folks who designed - and are taking credit for - this advance-refund system: Congress and President Bush. "It was not left to our discretion," said Marilyn Brookens, an IRS attorney in Washington. "It was a congressional and presidential decision to do it this way, and we're implementing what we were told to do." Brookens points to the tax-cutting language in the report from the House-Senate conference committee that Bush signed into law earlier this year. The law said that in 2001, the advance refund occurs "in lieu of" the rate cut from 15 percent to 10 percent. That statement, Brookens said, meant "if we didn't do it this way, we would be in trouble with them." But there are practical reasons, too, Brookens said: "It's an effort to have as few people as possible enter a number on the 1040. Every time there's another computation, it increases the likelihood of errors. "It's the way that will be quickest, most effective and result in the fewest number of errors," she said. INFOBOX MAILING DATES The government is sending out 92 million tax rebate checks over 10 weeks, starting at the end of the week. Generally, the last two digits of the Social Security number listed first on 2000 tax returns will determine when the check is mailed. Those who haven't filed a tax return for 2000 will not get a check until the return is processed. According to the Internal Revenue Service, the government's schedule for when checks should be received: SSN ending: ... Week of: 00-09: ........ July 23 10-19: ........ July 30 20-29: ........ Aug. 6 30-39: ........ Aug. 13 40-49: ........ Aug. 20 50-59: ........ Aug. 27 60-69: ........ Sept. 3 70-79: ........ Sept. 10 80-89: ........ Sept. 17 90-99: ........ Sept. 24 - The Associated Press Publication date: 2001-07-21© 2001, YellowBrix, Inc.  A much wittier reply came to mind immediately after I clicked the 'Send' button. A Life? Cool! Where can I download one of those from? BTW, FWIW, IMHO, AFAIK, yes. OTOH, AAMOF, maybe not. YMMV. This message was edited by Arthur Dent on 8-14-01 @ 11:59 AM | ||||
| Snoteater | posted on 08-14-2001 @ 12:06 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Apr. 01 | My brain exploded after reading this. I know it not that complicated, but it's just not making any sense. | ||||
| PhilNJ | posted on 08-14-2001 @ 1:15 PM | | |||
| Psychopath Registered: Aug. 00 | Spork - lots of words there. Not sure its 100% accurate though. Does anyone still believe there will be a surplus? Its not there. Never will be. The government is floating debt to pay these checks right now. That means they are borrowing $300 from you and then giving you a $300 gift. Its bullshit. Monetary policy should be left to the Fed - let the government worry about fiscal policy.  | ||||
| AFDude | posted on 08-14-2001 @ 1:20 PM | | |||
| O&A Board Regular Registered: Oct. 00 | I got an e-mail just like that earlier today, sent out from a friend who works in D.C..I called her, and she has verified it with the I.R.S.... First ever grad from the Newbie Academy: Lord Duvious....now able to fly solo. Currently training Thrillhouse..one slot still open. If you want to be adopted, | ||||
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Displaying 51-65 of 65 messages in this thread. |