Dear Elliot:

[Titan!]

Biff ? How is it you only have 95 posts ?

I have it set on a meter that monitors and counts only quality posts.

And then multiplies by 5 ?

[Torque]

Just when this thread is getting humorous...

I found the segment completely disturbing for a much bigger reason than that the baby died. That was no surprise of course. The fact that the two people knowingly brought the poor thing into this world to suffer just so they could be parents. I am sure they are otherwise deep down very nice people, they sounded very sensitive and kind, but I just think it's completely selfish of them. I didn't need the piano music and emotion filled voices to get me down, the image of that baby unable to express his pain and suffering with tubes, drugs, and holes in his organ systems worked just fine. There's a difference between consciously fighting for life and being forced to prolong one in a status very loosely referred to as alive.

[mainerliser]

Just when this thread is getting humorous...

I found the segment completely disturbing for a much bigger reason than that the baby died. That was no surprise of course. The fact that the two people knowingly brought the poor thing into this world to suffer just so they could be parents. I am sure they are otherwise deep down very nice people, they sounded very sensitive and kind, but I just think it's completely selfish of them. I didn't need the piano music and emotion filled voices to get me down, the image of that baby unable to express his pain and suffering with tubes, drugs, and holes in his organ systems worked just fine. There's a difference between consciously fighting for life and being forced to prolong one in a status very loosely referred to as alive.

They didn't know until she was around 7-8 months pregnant. What would have them do?!! They did what they could for the child. Even the doctors thought the baby would die before it was born. They cherished their child. There is nothing disturbing about that!!!! You've pissed me off with that comment!

[Torque]

I did not say they weren't doing what they thought was right, but I know I couldn't look down and cherish something that was suffering.

[dingdongyo]

Just when this thread is getting humorous...

I found the segment completely disturbing for a much bigger reason than that the baby died. That was no surprise of course. The fact that the two people knowingly brought the poor thing into this world to suffer just so they could be parents. I am sure they are otherwise deep down very nice people, they sounded very sensitive and kind, but I just think it's completely selfish of them. I didn't need the piano music and emotion filled voices to get me down, the image of that baby unable to express his pain and suffering with tubes, drugs, and holes in his organ systems worked just fine. There's a difference between consciously fighting for life and being forced to prolong one in a status very loosely referred to as alive.

well... way to lay a giant turd on the party.

i sort of changed outlooks too when that dude decided to get all jesus-y and "god is awesome" in his letters. i didn't lose sympathy, but i got a little pissy. i'm sure it gets him and his family through the night, and that's fine. it just sucked that the baby had to deal with all that shit while he felt like being poetic and churchy.

[mainerliser]

I did not say they weren't doing what they thought was right, but I know I couldn't look down and cherish something that was suffering.

So you would have killed it instead? You don't think the parents made that child as comfortable as they could? What choice did they have, kill him or care for him? I don't get what you think they could have done differently!

[0rz0ski]

Whoa, folks....we're about four posts past this being "Touchy Subject" material.

Let's look at it this way. Everyone is basically agreeing that life is something unique and special. This means that some believe that Elliot deserves a chance, and should be allowed to keep fighting. Others, however, believe that this life of Elliot shouldn't have any pain, since that's all that he would have to look forward to.

I personally believe life is sacred from womb to the tomb. While I do not agree with Torque's stance, I understand that her stance comes from her unwillingness to witness a life suffering, and that is something that I can empathize with. Who wants to see something suffering?

Whether or not you believe that Elliot should never have had to experience that pain at all, or if that the love and attention given to him by his parents was correct, I shouldn't judge you for it. It's a personal choice. My beliefs say that your beliefs are wrong, but this doesn't give us an excuse to hate. What it does give us, is the opportunity to exercise rational thought and logic, sit down, and agree to disagree, go our seperate ways, and live our lives by the choices we make.

Now, let's all take a deep breath and calm down.

[potthole]

You've pissed me off with that comment!

Trust me, I'm sure she's not losing any sleep over this.

[Titan!]

Here this should help.


[flash=350,287]http://www.youtube.com/v/m6Md5v2W4Eo&hl=en[/flash]

[Torque]

Eloquently put 0rz0ski. Don't worry, I've been nothing but calm.

Mainerliser, my post described how the segment made me feel and why, everyone is more than welcome to "get pissed" at my comment but don't tell me how something should make me feel or affect me or what to believe. That's religion's forte. I will edit a line from 0rz0ski: I am unwilling to CREATE or PROLONG a life of suffering. You ask what I think they should have done differently, as if I said their love and attention and care were somehow evil. All I'm pointing out is that time after time they had to make hard decisions and they repeatedly chose to extend his ordeal. We put our beloved pets down for much less.

This is not an attempt to draw out an unenjoyable topic, just clearing some things up.

[hotzester]

I am unwilling to CREATE or PROLONG a life of suffering....... All I'm pointing out is that time after time they had to make hard decisions and they repeatedly chose to extend his ordeal.

I certainly hope you're not implying that these parents should've terminated their pregnancy based on health issues of the baby, at SEVEN MONTHS into the pregnancy.

It could also be argued that these "churchy types" that many of you seem quick to judge are the same people who put their faith in God, letting Him determine the outcome of the baby. Isn't that what their faith would have them do?

[fistor!@#]

This is comfortable.

[Howie Feltersnatch]

I am unwilling to CREATE or PROLONG a life of suffering....... All I'm pointing out is that time after time they had to make hard decisions and they repeatedly chose to extend his ordeal.

It could also be argued that these "churchy types" that many of you seem quick to judge are the same people who put their faith in God, letting Him determine the outcome of the baby. Isn't that what their faith would have them do?

I tried putting my daily commute in God's hands once...I ended up in the rumble strips.

[fistor!@#]

It could also be argued that these "churchy types" that many of you seem quick to judge are the same people who put their faith in God, letting Him determine the outcome of the baby. Isn't that what their faith would have them do?

I tried putting my daily commute in God's hands once...I ended up in the rumble strips.

You should have God check your alignment.

[burnking]

I tried putting my daily commute in God's hands once...I ended up in the rumble strips.

You should have God check your alignment.

Or he should have God's alignment checked. Either way, something is off.

[hotzester]

Or realize that sometimes that what God has in store for you might not make sense.

[plungerhand]

What if God were one of us?



Iamgonnawritethatdown....

[dingdongyo]

I tried putting my daily commute in God's hands once...I ended up in the rumble strips.

You should have God check your alignment.

laughed like hell. both times.

It could also be argued that these "churchy types" that many of you seem quick to judge are the same people who put their faith in God, letting Him determine the outcome of the baby. Isn't that what their faith would have them do?

yeah. like i said, it gets them through the night. nothing wrong with that part.
the baby was born with a terminal/likely painful condition, and got carted around as a "miracle." if i were the baby, i'd be a little on the pissed side. that's all i'm saying.
feel free to consider the slow, unstoppable destruction of an innocent child as god's divine, merciful hand. i'm not going to stop you.

[Torque]

I am unwilling to CREATE or PROLONG a life of suffering....... All I'm pointing out is that time after time they had to make hard decisions and they repeatedly chose to extend his ordeal.

I certainly hope you're not implying that these parents should've terminated their pregnancy based on health issues of the baby, at SEVEN MONTHS into the pregnancy.

It could also be argued that these "churchy types" that many of you seem quick to judge are the same people who put their faith in God, letting Him determine the outcome of the baby. Isn't that what their faith would have them do?

I'm not going to get into the reasoning vs faith debate, but I've studied developmental physiology, which determines how offspring come out. If you believe God determined the outcome of the baby & said, "hey I'm going to really mangle this one!" fine, but it he didn't magic the tubes, drugs, surgeries, etc into happening, unless I just didn't notice his emminence in scrubs in the OR.

[fistor!@#]

I wish we could have just one dead baby discussion around here without it turning ugly.

[Torque]

I wish we could have just one dead baby discussion around here without it turning ugly.

Haha, I know, if Far Side could pull off this topic, why can't we?!

[Titan!]

There was a Far Side cartoon regarding dead babies ?

I call "no way"

Unless you have proof my dear Torque. If so, please post, thanks.

[Torque]

I'll scan it when I get home, it's the one with the ants carrying the baby to the ant hole and the leader yelling, "You idiots, we'll never fit that thing down the hole!" There was another one too, I have the special edition where Gary Larson explains that one of the baby cartoons was banned but in later compilations he used his original idea.

[Titan!]

Have you seen the Complete Far Side hardcovers ? OMG I lust for those.

The Pre-History of the Far Side is one of the greatest books ever written.

And I think I remember the one with the ants and the baby, but I don't think it was a dead baby, just a baby that the ants managed to carry off.

[0rz0ski]

Thank God for GIS.

http://www.mordens.net/rantpictures/farside/baby.jpg

Not posting the picture because I don't want to be a bandwidth thief. I'll post it to my flickr account if I get the chance.